Futurist Only Apparent Contradiction between Matthew 24 and Luke 17

[Warrior89]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. (Matthew 24:15-22)

However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

 

[Douggg]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

There is not a contradiction in the kjv.

The bible translation (NIV ?) of Luke 17:30 that you posted says...

"—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day,"

"on" indicates one specific 24 hour day.

In the kjv...the text features "in" and not "on". "in" that day indicates a general period of time, not a single 24 hour day.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Also Luke 17 is not as specific as Matthew 24:30. In Matthew 24:30, the revealing is more specific as the sign of the Son of man in appearing heaven. Of the three books, Matthew, Mark, Luke - Matthew is the most specific.

 

[RandyPNW]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

I understand that this is a "Futurist Only" section of the Forum, and I do consider myself a Futurist. However, people have regularly accused me of being a Preterist because I believe the Olivet Discourse is largely about Jesus' earthly ministry, whereas the book of Revelation is largely about the endtimes.

So if this offends you, I'll stop posting to you about this. I assure you, I mean no offense. But I've faced this one particular passage, and was forced to deal with it a couple of years ago. It challenged my then-current position, and I had to "fit it in" somehow to make it work consistently with my overall picture.

In short, I view the 70th Week of Daniel as basically the blueprint for the Olivet Discourse. After 3.5 years of Jesus' earthly ministry he is "cut off," as indicated in Dan 9. This terminated the 70th Week in only a Half-Week.

Then, the Abomination of Desolation, which was the Roman Army, would set a siege against Jerusalem, and ultimately "desolate the city and the sanctuary." This is specifically stated in Dan 9, that "the people of the ruler to come," that is an army, would "destroy the city and the sanctuary." This would be generally in the time when the "Anointed One," ie Jesus, is "cut off."

But Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse, doesn't just describe the destruction of the temple in "his generation," but he describes this as only the beginning of a long punishment for the Jewish People--the worst punishment in Israel's history. This "Jewish Diaspora" would only end at the return of the "Son of Man."

So in this scenario, which sounds like Preterism, but is not, I have to fit in Luke 17's details. It isn't Preterism because although like Preterism I view the AoD as the ancient Roman Army, I also see the "Great Tribulation" as the continuation of Israel's desolation from 70 AD down to the present. And I do believe that the book of Revelation speaks of the coming of a future Antichrist, along with the ultimate restoration of national Israel. Sorry--just how I view the words written.

So Luke 17 speaks of Jesus' revelation as if his Coming is to be viewed as one continuous revelation, from his earthly coming to his 2nd Coming. He was being revealed to Israel, somewhat cryptically, in his earthly ministry, but will come with full regalia at his 2nd Coming.

Only in this one particular Coming in Luke 17, Jesus has been speaking of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, which would be in 70 AD. He is not here saying that this is his 2nd Coming, but will rather be part of his overall revelation to Israel, taking place preliminarily in his generation, and ultimately, being completed at his glorious 2nd Coming.

I find this to be consistent with OT prophecies of the coming Day of the Lord, in which God comes to judge His people, which would be a time it is said, "then you will know that I am Lord." This revelation of Jesus is therefore a revelation of "judgment," which will be part of the overall revelation of Christ from the time of his earthly Coming to the time when he comes in final judgment.

"—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. "

Those who are on the housetop describes those Jews who in the time of Jesus spent time on their housetops. This isn't the modern world. It describes Israel at the time of the Roman invasion of 70 AD.

It is then that the Son of Man is revealed in judgment--a judgment that for Israel would last as the worst punishment in their history until they are restored in the last days, when the Son of Man comes again.

I do see the Olivet Discourse as descriptive of Jesus' Coming overall in the NT age, to judge Israel, to build up his Church, and to then come again in glory. I hope that helps you at least understand how I fit this in to my overall picture of biblical prophecy?

Many Christians today would not agree with me because of the diverse modern views of biblical eschatology. But my view conforms to the vew that was predominant in the Early Church, as I see it. And that has greater weight with me than some of these modern views.

Some of the popular modern views, particularly Dispensationalism, is a brand of Futurism that wishes to see everything future, current, and being fulfilled in our time. It is excited about viewing prophecy as being fulfilled today.

Although I agree with some of it, many prophecies have already been fulfilled, such as prophecies regarding Christ's 1st Coming. And I see the "Abomination of Desolation" in the Olivet Discourse as being concerned with that, the gathering of "eagles" at Jerusalem, which were Roman soldiers carrying eagle standards.

Jesus does describe his Coming in the book of Revelation as a coming in judgment in preliminary judgments. There may be other ways of interpreting the following, but this is just for your consideration:

Rev 2.16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3.2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

These passages sound like eschatological references, but they actually indicate that earlier judgments in history can be characterized as a form of Christ's Coming or Revelation. This is consistent with ancient biblical prophecies that speak of historical judgments characterized as a Coming or Revelation of the Lord.

These are, I believe, indications that God's Coming or Jesus' Coming is viewed as various incidences in history in which particular acts of judgment take place. In the time of Jesus, the judgment against Jerusalem in 70 AD was one particular occasion in which Jesus revealed himself in history, and was preliminary to his actual 2nd Coming.

Again, I mean no offence if my view, as expressed here, comes across as "less than Futurist." But this is one of those occasions where I, a particular kind of Futurist, am being asked to reconcile biblical matters that force me to express how I resolve them.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

2 Peter 3

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That is, not saying that Jesus is meaning the time between the Abomination of Desolation and His return is 1000 years.. but what I am saying is that you should not get fixated on 24 hour days when the bible says "that day".

Genesis 2

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.[/u]

and no, He did not mean "spiritually die"

Genesis 3

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 5

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Is that a contradiction?

No. But it does tell us that God does not see time the same way we do.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

What any believer should understand about end times in general is that there are 2 basic things that are going to happen, which have not happened yet:

1 The revealing of the man of sin, uh, that would be "the devil" and his own, prior to their final destruction by Jesus who

2 Returns to His temple(s), our BODIES, in FULL. Not saying Jesus isn't in our hearts right now, but the fullness of this matter remains in check and will til THEE END,

THEE END being THEE END of the devil and his messengers, NOT the end of people.

This is pretty basic stuff.

Now, the difficult part for all of us is to figure out the location of our enemy(s) and, voila, that answer was shown by Jesus on nearly every page of the N.T. Gospels and then some past that point all the way to the finale when THEY come to their end

The location of our enemy is in people. I could insert a duh here but this seems to be a difficult place to go for most believers. IT can be easily understood however if we reconnoiter the hard fact that we are all tempted internally by THE TEMPTER. If that makes it easier.

Judah is "the head." If you need help on the location of those in JUDEA

Who is then the imposter standing in our own HEADS?

Ah, maybe it's all starting to come together?

Ask God for help if you need clarifications, but please remember to be honest before our Maker before asking, as liars tend not to get much in the way of help from above:

Hebrews 10:22

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

See it yet? "a true heart in an evil conscience"

Let's try it one more time, from other disclosures:

All have sin, we are no better: Romans 3:9
and SIN is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

The final destruction of the devil and his messengers will take place IN US

IF you think you are, in our current state, totally OFF THE HOOK of judgment, think again because it's not just you or me or any other individual in our own heads. We also ALL bear our adversary, the tempter, in our own minds:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

God in Christ is not going to double deal this matter, period.

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

There is no contradiction. Luk. 17:26–36 is parallel to Mat. 24:37–41, not Mat. 24:15–26.
Mat. 24:15–26 is parallel to Luk. 21:20–24, not Luk. 17:26–36. You got the wrong verses.

Matthew 24	Luke 17
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.	26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so will it also be in the days of the Son of Man: 27 people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, and they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
	28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, and they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day, the one who will be on the housetop, with his goods in the house, must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one in the field must not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever strives to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will keep it.
40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.	34 I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. 36 [Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”]

Matthew 24	Mark 13	Luke 21
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	14 “Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 15 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. 16 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled.
19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.	17 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 Moreover, pray that it will not happen in winter.	23 Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days;
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.	19 For those days will be such a time of tribulation as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will again. 20 And if the Lord had not shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.	for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.	21 And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ’; or, ‘Look, there He is’; do not believe it; 22 for false christs and false prophets will arise, and will provide signs and wonders, in order to mislead, if possible, the elect. 23 But beware; I have told you everything in advance.

For this reason, the great tribulation is the same thing as the times of the Gentiles. They both last 42 months (Dan. 12:7; Rev. 11:2). Whether that's a day for each year is up to you to decide. But it seems unlikely that God would give the Jews 1,618 years and give the Gentiles only 3 1/2 years.

 

[Fisherking]

The Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. Jesus said this would be a terrible period of time, spanning multiple days (Matt. 24:22). This terminates when Jesus is revealed from heaven. (Matt. 24:29-31)



However, a cross-reference to Luke 17 seems to indicate that the revealing of the Son of Man will happen on the very same day that people are fleeing the abomination of desolation. This would mean that the Great Tribulation is only one day.

Matthew 24​	Mark 13​	Luke 17​
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand— then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.	“Now when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be—let the reader understand—then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	Whoever is on the housetop must not go down, nor go in to get anything out of his house. And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.	—so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back.

What are your thoughts on this? How would you resolve this apparent contradiction?

Since the starting point is the 1290 AoD, (which in reallity is 30 days before the tribulation begins, we know that this has to be speaking about Jesus being REVEALED unto the Jewish people as their Messiah. Think Zechariah 13:8-9 and Zech. 12:10. This is not about the 2nd coming, this is about the 1/3 who repent seeing Jesus as their Messiah, it is revealed unto them.