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Apostles are around today.

All Becomes New

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Now, I know how triggering a post like this can be (for Protestants especially).

But there is more than one kind of apostle. There is the Apostle (the 12 and Paul) and there are other apostles (not part of that group).

What is my basis for this? The clearest example is that Barnabas was considered an apostles along side Paul seen here:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out," (Acts 14:14)

Further, I see no Biblical evidence that the role of apostle has ceased. In fact, we can see that they exist until the Church of Christ has unity and it is no longer needed seen here:

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes." (Ephesians 4:11–14) (Emphasis mine)

The italics clearly shows that there is a point in time that we will not have apostles, but that time has not come yet since the Chruch of Christ is not "unified in the knowledge of the Son of God."

But wait, there's more!

Not only are there apostles today, but the Bible actually says that even during the time the NT was written that there were Gentiles who were apostles seen here,

"Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy... For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness. Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1a; 2:5–6)

Paul says, "Nor did we.. though we could have... as apostles." And we know that Timothy was a Gentile.
 

HTacianas

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Now, I know how triggering a post like this can be (for Protestants especially).

But there is more than one kind of apostle. There is the Apostle (the 12 and Paul) and there are other apostles (not part of that group).

What is my basis for this? The clearest example is that Barnabas was considered an apostles along side Paul seen here:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out," (Acts 14:14)

Further, I see no Biblical evidence that the role of apostle has ceased. In fact, we can see that they exist until the Church of Christ has unity and it is no longer needed seen here:

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes." (Ephesians 4:11–14) (Emphasis mine)

The italics clearly shows that there is a point in time that we will not have apostles, but that time has not come yet since the Chruch of Christ is not "unified in the knowledge of the Son of God."

But wait, there's more!

Not only are there apostles today, but the Bible actually says that even during the time the NT was written that there were Gentiles who were apostles seen here,

"Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy... For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness. Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1a; 2:5–6)

Paul says, "Nor did we.. though we could have... as apostles." And we know that Timothy was a Gentile.

The Apostles of today are the Patriarchs and Bishops. They are the continuation of successors to the Apostles.
 
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All Becomes New

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The Apostles of today are the Patriarchs and Bishops. They are the continuation of successors to the Apostles.

Do they have demonstrated "signs and wonders"? Is that required to be an apostle in your tradition? Because that is one of the key things that marks a person as an apostle.
 

HTacianas

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Do they have demonstrated "signs and wonders"? Is that required to be an apostle in your tradition? Because that is one of the key things that marks a person as an apostle.

"Signs and wonders" are not something that identifies an Apostle. An Apostle is a man who sits in the seat of the original Apostles, and those who have been deemed Apostles through the laying on of hands. There is an unbroken chain of the laying on of hands from the original Apostles to the Patriarchs of today. The Bishops under them act on their authority and the priests below the Bishops act on the authority of the Bishops. Else the Holy Spirit could not have been conveyed down to modern times.
 
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All Becomes New

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Else the Holy Spirit could not have been conveyed down to modern times.

That is quite untrue. It is up to God and not man who God chooses for specific purposes. For example, God chose King David despite the fact that he was overlooked by human wisdom.

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12–13)
 
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Clare73

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That is quite untrue. It is up to God and not man who God chooses for specific purposes. For example, God chose King David despite the fact that he was overlooked by human wisdom.

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12–13)
The apostles are the foundation of the church, which Jesus as the chief cornerstone (Eph 2:20).
That foundation and cornerstone were laid two millennia ago.
Neither the foundation nor the cornerstone are being relaid today.
 

All Becomes New

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The apostles are the foundation of the church, which Jesus as the chief cornerstone (Eph 2:20).
That foundation and cornerstone were laid two millennia ago.
Neither the foundation nor the cornerstone are being relaid today.

Yes they are.

"So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19–22) (Emphasis mine)
 
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HTacianas

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That is quite untrue. It is up to God and not man who God chooses for specific purposes. For example, God chose King David despite the fact that he was overlooked by human wisdom.

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12–13)

That isn't "biblical". Throughout the book of Acts there are examples of men chosen for some task or another and in every case the Apostles laid hands on them to commission them. Timothy was chosen to be a Bishop and was commissioned through the laying on of hands, see 1 Timothy 4:14. Even Paul himself was commissioned by Ananias of Damascus and received the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands. And Ananias had been chosen and given the gift of conveying the Holy Spirit.
 
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That isn't "biblical". Throughout the book of Acts there are examples of men chosen for some task or another and in every case the Apostles laid hands on them to commission them. Timothy was chosen to be a Bishop and was commissioned through the laying on of hands, see 1 Timothy 4:14. Even Paul himself was commissioned by Ananias of Damascus and received the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands. And Ananias had been chosen and given the gift of conveying the Holy Spirit.

That is all true. But these men showed first that they had been chosen by God. Not the other way around where they were chosen by men and then God appointed them.
 
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Clare73

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The apostles are the foundation of the church, which Jesus as the chief cornerstone (Eph 2:20).
That foundation and cornerstone were laid two millennia ago.
Neither the foundation nor the cornerstone are being relaid today.
Yes they are.

"So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:19–22) (Emphasis mine)
We not being the foundation of that building, therefore, cannot be apostles..
 
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All Becomes New

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We not being the foundation of that building, therefore, cannot be apostles..

Ah, I see you want to argue based on what is "logical" instead of what the Bible clearly says.

The passage does not say that there are no foundations being made at this point. In fact, the foundation will be laid until we all have unity of knowledge of the Son of God. You agree that there are evangelists, pastors and teachers but reject the five-fold-ministry. But for what reason? Can you point to a place in the Bible where the gift of apostles and prophets has ceased? It is the same as the SDA folks claiming we have to obey the Sabbath even though there are no commands in the NT about doing such: an argument from silence.
 
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Clare73

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Ah, I see you want to argue based on what is "logical" instead of what the Bible clearly says.

The passage does not say that there are no foundations being made at this point. In fact, the foundation will be laid until we all have unity of knowledge of the Son of God. You agree that there are evangelists, pastors and teachers but reject the five-fold-ministry. But for what reason? Can you point to a place in the Bible where the gift of apostles and prophets has ceased? It is the same as the SDA folks claiming we have to obey the Sabbath even though there are no commands in the NT about doing such: an argument from silence.
Q.E.D.
 
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I explained how it is demonstrated: by the five-fold-ministry.

You have no Bible passages that in context shows that the title of apostles and prophets are discontinued.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Now, I know how triggering a post like this can be (for Protestants especially).

But there is more than one kind of apostle. There is the Apostle (the 12 and Paul) and there are other apostles (not part of that group).

What is my basis for this? The clearest example is that Barnabas was considered an apostles along side Paul seen here:

"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out," (Acts 14:14)

Further, I see no Biblical evidence that the role of apostle has ceased. In fact, we can see that they exist until the Church of Christ has unity and it is no longer needed seen here:

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes." (Ephesians 4:11–14) (Emphasis mine)

The italics clearly shows that there is a point in time that we will not have apostles, but that time has not come yet since the Chruch of Christ is not "unified in the knowledge of the Son of God."

But wait, there's more!

Not only are there apostles today, but the Bible actually says that even during the time the NT was written that there were Gentiles who were apostles seen here,

"Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy... For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness. Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1a; 2:5–6)

Paul says, "Nor did we.. though we could have... as apostles." And we know that Timothy was a Gentile.
Ok .Lets say there are Apostles today. What would be their role in the Body of Christ? We already have...

Pastors
Preachers
Deacons
Elders
Bishops
Priests
Nuns
Saints
Prophets
False Prophets
Teachers
Angels of light
Ministers
Evangelists
Missionaries
Radio talk show hosts
TV hosts
Street preachers
Dreamers
Interpreters
Healers
Soothsayers
I'm sure there are more.......

I don't mean to be so candid but, really? Do we really need another label to elevate a human being?

Lets just be Christian!

Blessings
 
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All Becomes New

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Ok .Lets say there are Apostles today. What would be their role in the Body of Christ? We already have...

Pastors
Preachers
Deacons
Elders
Bishops
Priests
Nuns
Saints
Prophets
False Prophets
Teachers
Angels of light
Ministers
Evangelists
Missionaries
Talk show hosts
TV hosts
Street preachers
Dreamers
Soothsayers

I don't mean to be so candid but, really? Do we really need another label to elevate a human being?

Lets just be Christian!

Blessings

That is not an argument there are no apostles today.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Removing all speculation, Ephesians says the ministry gifts, including the Apostle, will continue until the body becomes unified in love and the power of the Spirit.
Has not happened yet, so....

Ephesians 4:7-15 KJV
7. But unto every one of us is given grace (body ministry) according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I did a study many years ago... I am talking like 40 years ago. I found 23 probable apostles listed in the NT.
Dakes Study Bible lists 24 if you include Jesus:
Twenty-four Apostles Recorded:
1. Simon Peter and his brother—
2. Andrew (Mat_10:2)
3. James, son of Zebedee and
4. John his brother (Mat_10:2)
5. Philip and his brother—
6. Bartholomew (Mat_10:3)
7. James, son of Alphaeus and
8. Judas his brother (Luk_6:16) and
9. Matthew, son of Alphaeus, perhaps brother of James and Judas (Mar_2:14; Luk_6:15)
10. Thomas (Mat_10:3)
11. Simon Zelotes, brother of James and Judas, according to tradition (Luk_6:15)
12. Judas Iscariot (Mat_10:4)
13. Matthias (Act_1:26)
14. Barnabas (1Co_9:5-6; Act_13:1-3; Act_14:4, Act_14:14; Gal_2:9)
15. Andronicus (Rom_16:7)
16. Junia (Rom_16:7)
17. Apollos (1Co_4:6-9)
18. James, the Lord’s brother (Gal_1:19; Gal_2:6; Jas_1:1)
19. Silas (1Th_1:1; 1Th_2:6)
20. Timothy (1Th_1:1; 1Th_2:6)
21. Titus (2Co_8:23)
22. Epaphroditus (Php_2:25)
23. Paul (Gal_1:1; Gal_2:8)
24. Jesus Christ (Heb_3:1)
 
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