apologies

Amatire · Jul 18, 2002

I decided to pick up my message bible this afternoon for a quick read.  Without really thinking about it, I opened up a random page and this is what was written there...

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who dont see things the way you do.  And dont jump all over then every time they do or say something you dont agree with--even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.  Remember, they have their won history to deal with.  Treat them gently.

For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he cannot eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, bight assume all Christians should be vegetariens and eat accordingly.  But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldnt it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didnt eat?  God, after all, invited them both to the table.  Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interferring with God's welcome?  If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help. Romans 14:1-3

So, I put the book down and I went hmmmm, whoops! and then I picked it up again, it fell open at this page...

Those people are on a dark spiral downward.  But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again.  Every time you criticize someone you condemn yourself.  It takes one to know one.  Judgemental criticizm of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors.  But God isnt so easily diverted.  He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you've done.

You didnt think, did you, that just by pointing your finger at others you would distract God from seeing all your misdoings and from coming down on you hard?  Or did you think that because he's such a nice God, he'd let you off the hook?  Better think that one through from the beginning.  God is kind, but hi's not soft.  In kindness he takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life change. Romans 2:1-3

Ok so this is my confession.  Many times I have looked at other people's posts and judged them on what they have said... I have presumed that if they did not fit in with my narrow view of theology they are wrong, and perhaps even are not real Christians! 

Many times I have tut tutted at those who in the course of a thread have become angry or insulting or have not managed to maintain a "perfect" composure.  I thought "shame on them, I would never be so judgemental!"

So I apologise; for judging, for condeming and for ridiculing others.  For presuming that I somehow hold the keys to heaven and can decide who gets in and who doesnt.  How true it is that we point the finger to escape detection ourselves! 

God is a lord of compassion and grace, he has wider arms than I realise. he embraces many that I in my blinkered vision would not even think knew where to look for him never mind what he is like!  He sees the heart, not the surface.  I defer all judgement to him...

I am very very sorry. I dont know what else to say.

except perhaps thankyou Lord for calling me to task about this!

Blessings upon you all

xx Am xx

ZiSunka · Jul 18, 2002

What is a "message bible"?

AngelAmidala · Jul 18, 2002

The only Message Bible I know of is a newer translation that provides a more "today" translation of what was said so long ago. Not exactly in what people might refer to as "street language" but kind of close. I haven't read this translation for myself though.

Is that the one you're talking about Amatire?

Amatire · Jul 19, 2002

Yeah thats right, its a translation from the greek into as "modern" language as possible. At best it is "Paraphrased" it is certainly not a literal translation, but what it does do is phrase things in a way that the guy on the street woud understand... for example in the passages above, Paul was actually talking about food sacrificed to idols not being vegetarian or omnivorous but most people today wouldnt have a clue what Paul was talking about. So the man who translated it, changed the words hopefully without changing the concept so that it would convey the meaning without having to go into a lengthy explanation about idols and sacrifices in the first century.

I find it makes for a refreshing and pleasant translation, it never fails to bring up something new, and make me re-think the message of each passage from a new perspective.  God seems to speak to me through it a great deal.  And it flows very well - sometimes I find with literal translations they can be a little jolting in their english which doesnt help with understanding.

The translator is a poet and a theologian called Eugene Peterson

you can find complete details about the Message Bible here..

http://www.navpress.com/message.asp

which has a list of FAQ's about half way down the page.

hope this helps

xx Am xx

Ps bear in mind, this is NOT a bible, it is not meant to be a bible, but it is extremely powerful.  And will help with your studies no end. 

Gerry · Jul 19, 2002

Good message! Kinda interesting how you got it, eh?

Amatire · Jul 19, 2002

lol Gerry, yup, think thats what you call divine intervention, dont ya think?

Rafael · Jul 26, 2002

It is a great thing to come to the realizations that you have. Knowledge puffs up and Jesus said to beware the leaven of the Pharisees. They were the religious dudes of His day and they had power and priviledge over people. Jesus hung out with prostitutes, fishermen, tax collectors and just poor common folk. The Pharisees hated Him and were jealous of the attention He got and so they put Him to death.
There is one incident recorded in Luke 18: 10-14: that shows how we shouldn't be and Jesus told them that they "shut up the gates of heaven" to others (Mt. 23:13) with their judging people to hell for sin.
Lu 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

LouisBooth · Jul 26, 2002

I thought the message was a NLT translation which is not a paraphrase but a translation.

AngelAmidala · Jul 27, 2002

Nope...it is its a "paraphrase from the original languages." I went to the link that Amatire posted for The Message and found this in the FAQ part.

Is The Message a translation or a paraphrase?

Since Eugene Peterson worked with the text strictly from Greek and Hebrew to English, he did what a translator does by choosing contemporary English words that best express the meaning of the original language. As all translators do, he used interpretative skill in choosing those English words. However, he "paraphrased" the original by selecting language that communicates the style and flavor of the original in Bible timesrather than trying to achieve word-for-word correspondence. The Message, then, is a paraphrase from the original languages. Translation is generally thought of as bringing the meaning from one language to another, whereas a paraphrase is usually a rewording of a document within the same language. Yet in one sense all translation involves paraphrasing. There is no clearly distinct line that can be drawn between the two. Sometimes, it takes five English words to bring across the meaning of a single Greek word; other times only one English word is required to communicate five Greek words.
When Eugene began his work on The Message, he looked at how scholars had translated Homer from Greek to English. Some had tried to match word for word; others attempted to recreate the poetry of Homer in English. The Message leans toward the latter. Eugene's intent was to recapture the tone, to bring out the subtleties and nuances of the Hebrew and Greek languages while keeping a sense of firsthand experience for contemporary readers. He often asked himself, "If Paul were the pastor of my church, how would he say this?" or "If Jesus were here teaching, what would it sound like?"
So is it a translation or a paraphrase? It is probably most accurately called a "translation of tone" or a "paraphrase from the original languages." It is a bridging of the gap between the original languages and English, and between centuries of time and language change, to bring to us the New Testament as it originally sounded.

Amatire · Aug 6, 2002

heres hoping my resolve lasts.... pray for me folks

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