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Apocrypha question

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JOYfulbeliever

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Hi OBOB'rs!

I have a quick question for you guys who are so much wiser than me in this area...I'm confident someone will have an answer!! ;)

I have been doing some research into the history of the different translations of the English Bible and I came across some interesting information tonight.

Quick disclaimer...I don't have the source in front of me, so if I get numbers wrong, I apologize!!!

Okay...so, originally, the Apocrypha was 14 books that were originally in the Greek language. These books were translated into English along with the rest of Scriptures due to their Greek language, and together, it made 80 books in the Bible.

Biblical scholars later dropped these books out of the King James Bible because they did not believe them to be inspired (recounting the source here).

However, the Catholic church retained some of these books and discredited others. I believe I recall the source saying that the Catholic church recognized 7 of the 14 books. I hope that number is right...if not...forgive me...it's extremely late!

My question for you guys is this...why were only half or so (in case my number was wrong!) of the books in the Apocrypa recognized by the Catholic church? What makes them more holy and worthy than the other books that were discreditted?

Honest questions...I promise. In doing some research of my own, this just sparked my curiosity and it's one of those nagging questions for me at the moment. Can someone help me out? :help:
 

JOYfulbeliever

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Hmmm...well, I'm pretty sure there were 14 books. I saw that in more than one source...once source even listed them...but I couldn't remember them if someone held a gun to my head! :p

And more than one source also listed 80 books... since there are 66 in the New and Old Testaments...that would leave 14 in the Apocrypha.

However, if there *weren't* 14...could someone provide me another source? I'm just really looking for all the information on this I can find as I'm finding it super interesting in relation to my research at the moment! :)
 
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KennySe

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Hi, Joy.

When the Catholic Church set the Canon of the Bible, included were the books for the Old Testament and the New Testament. There were no "Apocrpha books" of the Bible or any "Deuterocanonical books" there was simply "These are the books of the Bible." (Not "simply" as it took some time to formulize the Canon, but when it WAS declared, it was declared.)

There's plenty of information in the links below; I have extracted parts of each link.
I have this in a .doc on my harddrive as a tool so I can show where "MY" Bible came from.
When Protestants accept the 27 books of the Catholic Canon fror the New testament, why don't they accept the Old Testament Canon which was given simultaneously with the New? (A question someone else may answer, as I am focused on "MY" Bible.)

Peace.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deuteros.htm

The canon of Scripture, Old and New Testament, was finally settled at the Council of Rome in 382, under the authority of Pope Damasus I. It was soon reaffirmed on numerous occasions. The same canon was affirmed at the Council of Hippo in 393 and at the Council of Carthage in 397. In 405 Pope Innocent I reaffirmed the canon in a letter to Bishop Exuperius of Toulouse. Another council at Carthage, this one in the year 419, reaffirmed the canon of its predecessors and asked Pope Boniface to "confirm this canon, for these are the things which we have received from our fathers to be read in church." All of these canons were identical to the modern Catholic Bible, and all of them included the deuterocanonicals.

This exact same canon was implicitly affirmed at the seventh ecumenical council, II Nicaea (787), which approved the results of the 419 Council of Carthage, and explicitly reaffirmed at the ecumenical councils of Florence (1442), Trent (1546), Vatican I (1870), and Vatican II (1965).

*****************

Canon of the OT
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

The terms protocanonical and deuterocanonical, of frequent usage among Catholic theologians and exegetes, require a word of caution. They are not felicitous, and it would be wrong to infer from them that the Church successively possessed two distinct Biblical Canons. Only in a partial and restricted way may we speak of a first and second Canon. Protocanonical (protos, "first") is a conventional word denoting those sacred writings which have been always received by Christendom without dispute. The protocanonical books of the Old Testament correspond with those of the Bible of the Hebrews, and the Old Testament as received by Protestants. The deuterocanonical (deuteros, "second") are those whose Scriptural character was contested in some quarters, but which long ago gained a secure footing in the Bible of the Catholic Church, though those of the Old Testament are classed by Protestants as the "Apocrypha". These consist of seven books: Tobias, Judith, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, Wisdom, First and Second Machabees; also certain additions to Esther and Daniel.
It should be noted that protocanonical and deuterocanonical are modern terms, not having been used before the sixteenth century.

[snip]

The most striking difference between the Catholic and Protestant Bibles is the presence in the former of a number of writings which are wanting in the latter and also in the Hebrew Bible, which became the Old Testament of Protestantism. These number seven books: Tobias (Tobit), Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) , Baruch, I and II Machabees, and three documents added to protocanonical books, viz., the supplement to Esther, from x, 4, to the end, the Canticle of the Three Youths (Song of the Three Children) in Daniel, iii, and the stories of Susanna and the Elders and Bel and the Dragon, forming the closing chapters of the Catholic version of that book. Of these works, Tobias and Judith were written originally in Aramaic, perhaps in Hebrew; Baruch and I Machabees in Hebrew, while Wisdom and II Machabees were certainly composed in Greek. The probabilities favour Hebrew as the original language of the addition to Esther, and Greek for the enlargements of Danie

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OT CANON (QUOTES)
http://www.catholic.com/library/Old_Testament_Canon.asp

Council of Rome

"Now indeed we must treat of the divine scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book, Ecclesiastes, one book, [and] Canticle of Canticles [Song of Songs], one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books" (Decree of Pope Damasus [A.D. 382]).

*

Council of Hippo

"[It has been decided] that besides the canonical scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the canonical scriptures are
as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, and a portion of the Psalms], the twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . ." (Canon 36 [A.D. 393]).

*
Council of Carthage III

"[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine scriptures. But the canonical scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees . . ." (Canon 47 [A.D. 397]).

*

Pope Innocent I

"A brief addition shows what books really are received in the canon. These are the things of which you desired to be informed verbally: of Moses, five books, that is, of Genesis, of Exodus, of Leviticus, of Numbers, of Deuteronomy, and Joshua, of Judges, one book, of Kings, four books, and also Ruth, of the prophets, sixteen books, of Solomon, five books, the Psalms. Likewise of the histories, Job, one book, of Tobit, one book, Esther, one, Judith, one, of the Maccabees, two, of Esdras, two, Paralipomenon, two books . . ." (Letters 7 [A.D. 408]).

**********

Canon of the NT
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

The Catholic New Testament, as defined by the Council of Trent, does not differ, as regards the books contained, from that of all Christian bodies at present. Like the Old Testament, the New has its deuterocanonical books and portions of books, their canonicity having formerly been a subject of some controversy in the Church. These are for the entire books: the Epistle to the Hebrews, that of James, the Second of St. Peter, the Second and Third of John, Jude, and Apocalypse; giving seven in all as the number of the New Testament contested books. The formerly disputed passages are three: the closing section of St. Mark's Gospel, xvi, 9-20 about the apparitions of Christ after the Resurrection; the verses in Luke about the bloody sweat of Jesus, xxii, 43, 44; the Pericope Adulteræ, or narrative of the woman taken in adultery, St. John, vii, 53 to viii, 11. Since the Council of Trent it is not permitted for a Catholic to question the inspiration of these passages.​
 
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JOYfulbeliever

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Thanks so much guys!!! I'm going to look at all of that tomorrow...I'm about to drop tonight...

I'm sure after I do...I'll be back with more questions! :sorry: This is just fascinating to me. I love learning something new! :D (why didn't I enjoy it this much back when I was in high school? :scratch: )

Oh, and Ktistes (man...thats a difficult name to type!) - No sweat! I'm usually the one who is wrong...but I was pretty sure on this one! I just appreciate you taking the time to respond! :hug:
 
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Credo

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Ktistes said:
i'm not sure on this, but don't think there were fourteen books but some were parts of other books as in 151 psalm and i beleive one was part of Daniel.

I think you're referring to parts of Daniel and Esther which were along with 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, which are all part of the Greek Septuagint Old Testament. These are all included in the Catholic Bible, but were thrown out at the Reformation by Luther and others.
 
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Credo

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From New Advent: Psalms -

The printed Hebrew Bible lists 150 psalms. Fewer are given by some Massoretic MSS. The older Septuagint MSS. (Codd. Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Alexandrinus) give 151, but expressly state that the last psalm is not canonical: "This psalm was written by David with his own hand and is outside the number", exothen tou arithmou. The Vulgate follows the numeration of the Septuagint but omits Ps. cli. The differences in the numerations of the Hebrew and Vulgate texts may be seen in the following scheme:

Hebrew 1-8 = Septuagint/Vulgate 1-8
Hebrew 9 = Septuagint/Vulgate 9-10
Hebrew 10-112 = Septuagint/Vulgate 11-113
Hebrew 113 = Septuagint/Vulgate 114-115
Hebrew 114-115 = Septuagint/Vulgate 116
Hebrew 116-145 = Septuagint/Vulgate 117-146
Hebrew 146-147 = Septuagint/Vulgate 147
Hebrew 148-150 = Septuagint/Vulgate 148-150​
 
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