Anyone Know Theology and Spanish?

[Messerve]

A friend's father sometimes reposts verses from this woman's ministry's Facebook.

I'm not Catholic, but my friend and his father are. I'm not sure if my friend is truly saved from certain observations and things said. I once asked him, "Do you do anything for Easter?" and he replied "It's just a day." I said I gave my life to Jesus and asked him if he ever did that and he said "Not really."

His father will repost things from that page I linked above, but from our few interactions I've seen enough stuff to make me wonder about him still... I just get such mixed messages.

They have pictures of Mary on the wall, but I'm not sure if they pray to her or not, or even pray much in general, except for saying their confessions to priests online... When I've eaten with them, there was no prayer and I've never seen them do the sign of the cross or anything like that.

So here's what I was hoping. If any of you are fluent or semi-fluent in Spanish could you watch a few of this woman's videos and break it down theologically for me regarding if it preaches the true Gospel or is some kind of syncretistic teaching? I'm hoping she teaches the true Gospel since I believe my friend and his father still need that.

Thanks!

 

[Messerve]

A friend's father sometimes reposts verses from this woman's ministry's Facebook.

I'm not Catholic, but my friend and his father are. I'm not sure if my friend is truly saved from certain observations and things said. I once asked him, "Do you do anything for Easter?" and he replied "It's just a day." I said I gave my life to Jesus and asked him if he ever did that and he said "Not really."

His father will repost things from that page I linked above, but from our few interactions I've seen enough stuff to make me wonder about him still... I just get such mixed messages.

They have pictures of Mary on the wall, but I'm not sure if they pray to her or not, or even pray much in general, except for saying their confessions to priests online... When I've eaten with them, there was no prayer and I've never seen them do the sign of the cross or anything like that.

So here's what I was hoping. If any of you are fluent or semi-fluent in Spanish could you watch a few of this woman's videos and break it down theologically for me regarding if it preaches the true Gospel or is some kind of syncretistic teaching? I'm hoping she teaches the true Gospel since I believe my friend and his father still need that.

Thanks!

To add to this topic, I want to make sure I also admit I've probably done things in my friend (the son)'s presence that would probably not be too far off from the things I've observed them do. It always began with them, but still...

For example, my friend texted me a video which was pretty dirty and rather than confronting it, I just send a lame laughing smiley back because I didn't know what to say and was too cowardly to say I didn't like it. Another time I was given an alcoholic drink and despite them saying I didn't have to finish it (they consider drinking rebellious and sort of a small sin), I said it was fine and drank it anyway. So yeah... I've messed up in their presence.

So my observations could have been of them at their low points, as well. Just to clarify that.

 

[Tom 1]

A friend's father sometimes reposts verses from this woman's ministry's Facebook.

I'm not Catholic, but my friend and his father are. I'm not sure if my friend is truly saved from certain observations and things said. I once asked him, "Do you do anything for Easter?" and he replied "It's just a day." I said I gave my life to Jesus and asked him if he ever did that and he said "Not really."

His father will repost things from that page I linked above, but from our few interactions I've seen enough stuff to make me wonder about him still... I just get such mixed messages.

They have pictures of Mary on the wall, but I'm not sure if they pray to her or not, or even pray much in general, except for saying their confessions to priests online... When I've eaten with them, there was no prayer and I've never seen them do the sign of the cross or anything like that.

So here's what I was hoping. If any of you are fluent or semi-fluent in Spanish could you watch a few of this woman's videos and break it down theologically for me regarding if it preaches the true Gospel or is some kind of syncretistic teaching? I'm hoping she teaches the true Gospel since I believe my friend and his father still need that.

Thanks!

I don't fancy listening to all of it but here's what's in the vid at the top of the list - the presenter introduces the show as a program 'run by the public' (i.e the people who call and write in), as if they were all at someone's home, brothers & sisters in Christ together, drinking coffee and talking about personal and spiritual issues. She says that the Holy Spirit will illuminate how they should resolve all of the issues they discuss and pray about. Carmelita poses the question 'how many times do we fail to understand what is happening to us? Or what the root cause of it is?' The bible is our legacy, she says, God gave it to us to find our way in life, to arrive at Jesus.

Then they start chatting about how, when a person opens their heart to God, they begin to understand what the root causes of the problem they are dealing with are, and goes on to give a load of examples of that kind of thing. People call and write into the show and they go over the things they call and write about etc, but it's all more of the same stuff - talk, pray, open your heart, find out what the root of your problem is then use the bible and the guidance of the spirit to resolve it. Carmelita seems to be Catholic, she talks about Mary a lot as well as Jesus.

It's a bit boiler plate but she didn't say anything unusual or cultlike. Sounded like standard Catholic ideas at the base of it all.

 

[Messerve]

I don't fancy listening to all of it but here's what's in the vid at the top of the list - the presenter introduces the show as a program 'run by the public' (i.e the people who call and write in), as if they were all at someone's home, brothers & sisters in Christ together, drinking coffee and talking about personal and spiritual issues. She says that the Holy Spirit will illuminate how they should resolve all of the issues they discuss and pray about. Carmelita poses the question 'how many times do we fail to understand what is happening to us? Or what the root cause of it is?' The bible is our legacy, she says, God gave it to us to find our way in life, to arrive at Jesus.

Then they start chatting about how, when a person opens their heart to God, they begin to understand what the root causes of the problem they are dealing with are, and goes on to give a load of examples of that kind of thing. People call and write into the show and they go over the things they call and write about etc, but it's all more of the same stuff - talk, pray, open your heart, find out what the root of your problem is then use the bible and the guidance of the spirit to resolve it. Carmelita seems to be Catholic, she talks about Mary a lot as well as Jesus.

It's a bit boiler plate but she didn't say anything unusual or cultlike. Sounded like standard Catholic ideas at the base of it all.

Okay, so it doesn't exactly preach the Gospel but more teaches the Bible as sort of a self-help book from God?

What exactly seems to be her base theology of Jesus? As the one who saves, the son of God, or merely as a role model for us? What seems to be the purpose of "arriving at Jesus?" And what does she say about Mary?

Sorry for all the questions. Maybe she doesn't even go into that much detail.

 

[Tom 1]

Sorry for all the questions. Maybe she doesn't even go into that much detail.

It's fairly repetitive. There wasn't anything that sounded unusual or that deviates from standard Christian beliefs. All the stuff on the community page etc all looks the same.

Okay, so it doesn't exactly preach the Gospel but more teaches the Bible as sort of a self-help book from God?

Actually I don't know if it would be fair to categorise it like that, they are just sharing problems, with scripture based advice and prayers, and so on. Nothing new-agy about it, if that's what you mean. In any case that just seems to be the purpose of that particular show, I think it's just one part of some sort of online ministry. They have links with Catholic organisations in other parts of the world, e.g. there is a vid with a mother superior and another nun from Seville she seems to be on friendly terms with.

 

[Messerve]

It's fairly repetitive. There wasn't anything that sounded unusual or that deviates from standard Christian beliefs. All the stuff on the community page etc all looks the same.



That just seems to be the purpose of that particular show, I think it's just one part of some sort of online ministry. They have links with Catholic organisations in other parts of the world, e.g. there is a vid with a mother superior and another nun from Seville she seems to be on friendly terms with.

Hmmm... Well it's better than preaching a blatantly false Gospel then. I mean the Bible is obviously more than just for self-help. The purpose of it is more to open our eyes to who God is, be reunited with Him and begin living in a way that glorifies Him. But personal benefits obviously occur as a direct result of that.

Well, that's somewhat encouraging then. Helps me see where my friend and his dad are coming from just a little more.

 

[Tom 1]

I mean the Bible is obviously more than just for self-help.

That's just one segment of one video, it doesn't necessarily characterise their whole ministry.

 

[Messerve]

That's just one segment of one video, it doesn't necessarily characterise their whole ministry.

Oh okay. Well if anyone wants to try to give a more overarching summary of the theology being taught by her program, that would be helpful.

 

[Tom 1]

Oh okay. Well if anyone wants to try to give a more overarching summary of the theology being taught by her program, that would be helpful.

Didn't your mother teach you any manners? What's the magic word?

 

[Messerve]

Oh. Pleeeeaaassse?

And thanks, too.

 

[Tom 1]

Oh. Pleeeeaaassse?

And thanks, too.

You're welcome.

 

[com7fy8]

Well if anyone wants to try to give a more overarching summary of the theology being taught by her program, that would be helpful.

The bible is our legacy, she says, God gave it to us to find our way in life, to arrive at Jesus.

This can mean we arrive at not only solutions to our problems, but we arrive "at Jesus". So, this could be her overall meaning. And yes, in my opinion, Biblical life has everything developing so we are more and more with Jesus and how God has us loving as family while reaching to any and all others, in caring prayer and with good example. So, if this is what she means by arriving "at Jesus" . . . amen.

I have seen how preaching can talk a lot about using God to bless me and solve my problems, but not say much about how to get real correction which changes us to become like Jesus is and is pleasing to God, and love the way Jesus on the cross loved any and all people. There can be much about using faith to get what we need, but not much about how we need to become in our character, and how we love because of "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6).

So, what she means by arriving "at Jesus" would be important.

And if we are growing in Jesus, we become more and more all-loving . . . not only trying to use God and prayer and our giving to get our own selves blessed.

 

[dzheremi]

Ooof...I grew up speaking Spanish from age 3 or 4 (around there; early enough to where I don't remember ever being taught it specifically, or ever not speaking it), so I can understand it, but I don't know that I'm a very good person for this assignment, because I'm Orthodox, not Catholic or whatever she is (a lot of Hispanic stuff even within the Catholic Church is on the border of Pentecostalism in some ways, due to the high degree of syncretism that is allowed to flourish in those communities, so I wouldn't trust pictures or routinized actions to be my guide as to this woman's theology). So when she talks at the beginning about treating it as like a meeting in one of their homes, where they can unburden themselves and the Holy Spirit will come to illuminate them or whatever, I just think "Nope...nope...that's how weird sects get started within an established Church", because such 'home meetings' have been banned in my own Church without the permission of the local bishop, due to the propensity for heterodox ideas to flourish at them and cults of personality to develop among their devotees, who often then treat them as equal to or even a replacement for liturgical worship which is to be our standard for gathering as brothers and sisters in Christ.

But again, that's my Church and its decision, so if the Roman Catholic Church has different standards, who am I to say otherwise as though they are accountable to Orthodoxy without actually being Orthodox? Still, I don't think I'm going to watch anymore, because I have an uneasy feeling about what I have seen so far. Maybe it's misplaced, but I cannot lie. I don't like it. Perhaps it's a matter of presentation as much as anything, but there is a way to do Q&A type programs, and it's generally not to give it over to some lady so that she becomes a personality despite not being a nun or an abbess or some other rank which would carry with it some authority. Again, this may be an Orthodoxy vis-a-vis Catholicism thing, but like in the Coptic Orthodox Church we have the example of someone like Tamav Irini, the late abbess of St. Philopateer Mercurius in Old Cairo, who taught publicly because she was granted that by HH Pope Shenouda III himself. She didn't just say, "Well, I'm popular with people, and they like my answers, so I'm going to put myself out there on behalf of the Church, even though nobody said I could, so there's nothing to say that I'm not just putting my own opinions and decorating them with Orthodox trappings like my nuns clothes."

Or to put it another way, whether or not this particular lady is sound, I would think the Roman Catholic Church would want to avoid the kind of situation described below, where people who are espousing a different theology and/or practice than that of their Church are allowed to grow due to their outward appearance of being in conformity with the Church:

But again, this is all an Orthodox (and also ex-Catholic) person's perspective, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Messerve]

This can mean we arrive at not only solutions to our problems, but we arrive "at Jesus". So, this could be her overall meaning. And yes, in my opinion, Biblical life has everything developing so we are more and more with Jesus and how God has us loving as family while reaching to any and all others, in caring prayer and with good example. So, if this is what she means by arriving "at Jesus" . . . amen.

I have seen how preaching can talk a lot about using God to bless me and solve my problems, but not say much about how to get real correction which changes us to become like Jesus is and is pleasing to God, and love the way Jesus on the cross loved any and all people. There can be much about using faith to get what we need, but not much about how we need to become in our character, and how we love because of "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6).

So, what she means by arriving "at Jesus" would be important.

And if we are growing in Jesus, we become more and more all-loving . . . not only trying to use God and prayer and our giving to get our own selves blessed.

Exactly my point! I really want to know what she's teaching about "arriving at Jesus" because that can be a good thing or misleading.

From a Catholic standpoint which is more traditions and works based salvation (unless I totally misunderstand it) I'm not sure what to make of "arriving at Jesus" or even what role Jesus plays exactly... I mean, what was the purpose in Him dying such a brutal death if it wasn't to make amends for our sin? He could have been a good example to us with a whole lot less than that, and it would make his refusal to defend himself or answer Pilate more of a suicide than anything.

So I'm really curious what her base theology would be teaching people like my friend and his dad who don't read their Bibles or seem to understand the Gospel really at all.

 

[Messerve]

Ooof...I grew up speaking Spanish from age 3 or 4 (around there; early enough to where I don't remember ever being taught it specifically, or ever not speaking it), so I can understand it, but I don't know that I'm a very good person for this assignment, because I'm Orthodox, not Catholic or whatever she is (a lot of Hispanic stuff even within the Catholic Church is on the border of Pentecostalism in some ways, due to the high degree of syncretism that is allowed to flourish in those communities, so I wouldn't trust pictures or routinized actions to be my guide as to this woman's theology). So when she talks at the beginning about treating it as like a meeting in one of their homes, where they can unburden themselves and the Holy Spirit will come to illuminate them or whatever, I just think "Nope...nope...that's how weird sects get started within an established Church", because such 'home meetings' have been banned in my own Church without the permission of the local bishop, due to the propensity for heterodox ideas to flourish at them and cults of personality to develop among their devotees, who often then treat them as equal to or even a replacement for liturgical worship which is to be our standard for gathering as brothers and sisters in Christ.

But again, that's my Church and its decision, so if the Roman Catholic Church has different standards, who am I to say otherwise as though they are accountable to Orthodoxy without actually being Orthodox? Still, I don't think I'm going to watch anymore, because I have an uneasy feeling about what I have seen so far. Maybe it's misplaced, but I cannot lie. I don't like it. Perhaps it's a matter of presentation as much as anything, but there is a way to do Q&A type programs, and it's generally not to give it over to some lady so that she becomes a personality despite not being a nun or an abbess or some other rank which would carry with it some authority. Again, this may be an Orthodoxy vis-a-vis Catholicism thing, but like in the Coptic Orthodox Church we have the example of someone like Tamav Irini, the late abbess of St. Philopateer Mercurius in Old Cairo, who taught publicly because she was granted that by HH Pope Shenouda III himself. She didn't just say, "Well, I'm popular with people, and they like my answers, so I'm going to put myself out there on behalf of the Church, even though nobody said I could, so there's nothing to say that I'm not just putting my own opinions and decorating them with Orthodox trappings like my nuns clothes."

Or to put it another way, whether or not this particular lady is sound, I would think the Roman Catholic Church would want to avoid the kind of situation described below, where people who are espousing a different theology and/or practice than that of their Church are allowed to grow due to their outward appearance of being in conformity with the Church:

But again, this is all an Orthodox (and also ex-Catholic) person's perspective, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hmmm... You make some good points about allowing someone to become a personality and authority on biblical things without having any real cross-examination or sponsorship by the Church. Of course, I don't know her background, so I can't say that she isn't well educated in theology. But I would guess she's something like a televangelist who are often preaching things that make people feel good or give them hope without actually addressing the problem of sin.

Regarding the Bible verses she posts, I think I could draw a similar conclusion, as well. They're mostly just things to encourage people - but not real challenges for personal change.

Here's something interesting. She posted John 14:17 twice on her page and when I translated it roughly with Google Translate it seems very paraphrased.

Google Translated Version: "Let us know the Holy Spirit because he remains with us and in us he has his abode"
English Standard Version: "...even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you."

That completely eliminates the part of the verse saying the world cannot receive the Holy Spirit because it neither sees Him or knows Him. That's kind of important... And the verse isn't saying it's optional if you want to know the Holy Spirit or not - like He's just a godly state of mind or something. The verse is really saying that we will know the Holy Spirit because He lives in us. It's a given if you're really saved. You don't have to search for Him if He lives in you. He's always there.

Reminds me of when I was in a foreign country once. The village I stayed in had had a major revival back at the turn of the century when missionaries first arrived, but these days it's sort of in a spiritual rut and the churches are just going through the motions and very lifeless. When the current missionaries there asked the people about the Holy Spirit, they seemed to think the presence of the Spirit was embodied in some sort of object that the first missionaries a hundred years ago had brought to their village but had been lost at some point. Almost like an Ark of the Covenant. So young people today search through the forest and dig up the ground hoping to rediscover whatever that Holy Spirit-containing treasure was. Pretty sad...

I've looked up a lot of the verses she's posted and just judging from those, I'm guessing she tends to lean toward a Prosperity Gospel or as you said, maybe sort of a Pentecostal Catholicism, if that's a thing.

 

[dzheremi]

Hmm. Looking up John 14:17 in the Reina-Valera (think like the KJV, but in Spanish), we get:

Al Espíritu de verdad, al cual el mundo no puede recibir, porque no le ve, ni le conoce: mas vosotros le conocéis; porque está con vosotros, y será en vosotros.

The bolded text is the bit about the world not being able to receive Him. I don't know why that wouldn't be present in whatever version she is using, but yeah, if that is in fact the case then that's all the more reason to avoid this lady. Lord have mercy.

 

[Messerve]

I wanted to respond to the post of Proverbs 3:5 with Proverbs 3:6. Proverbs 3:5 alone is just a nice comforting verse for when you are dealing with problems, but when you add Proverbs 6 to it, you realize it's a whole lot more than just God taking over your problems for you, but you have to acknowledge and submit to him. Only then will your paths be made straight.

The problem is, in the Spanish translations I'm finding that Proverbs 6 seems to always be worded as:

"Recognize Him in all your ways,
and He will pave your paths."

But recognizing God isn't the same as submitting to God, which is what i think this verse is really trying to say. I feel like some of the weight of it is lost in Spanish...

 

[dzheremi]

Where are you getting "submit" in 3:6? I don't know Hebrew, but this interlinear suggests that it is "acknowledge" (not "acknowledge and submit") in the Hebrew. The Greek is likewise without "submit". Same with the Arabic (the SVD, which is a relatively new, Protestant translation), which uses اعْرِفْهُ "know Him". The Coptic follows the Greek LXX (understandably), not only in lacking "submit" but in the general rendering ("acquaint thyself with her").

I don't know for sure, but I think the Spanish is probably in line with the more traditional translations made from the Hebrew, while some others are clearly in line with the traditional translation that was made into Greek at Alexandria before the coming of Christ (the LXX). I wish I could see the Syriac version for comparative purposes, but I'm not aware of anywhere to find it online (only the NT).

 

[Messerve]

.

 

[Messerve]

You may be right. I think I was referencing the NIV version which does say submit, but I know the NIV has some inaccuracies because it paraphrases some things.

I'm not very familiar with the Alexandria translation. In fact, I only just learned about it a half hour ago.