Anyone else grow tired of re-hashing old arguments?

[Veritas]

The other day, it was posted that we should be as patient and charitable with the 268th "why do you worship Mary" as with the first. (or something like that).I agree, but after having done this for the umpteenth time, do any of you get weary? I wonder how and why there are so many misconceptions so widely believed. They come from all corners of the faith spectrum. I have an idea as to why they are so strongly believed, but I really question the value sometimes of these discussion forums and their effect on non-Catholics. Ar we really making any progress???

God's Peace and Grace be with,

Veritas

 

[BAChristian]

You would be surprised.

Remember to look at it from a newcomer's PoV. Consider the following: This is your first time you've ever came to CF. You start to do a search, and all you get are hyperlinks to more information. Do you think you'd stick around? Sure, you'd probably research the links, but would perspectives from laity help you more? Of course they would.

So with that said, you'd probably stick around and want to get to know the people who claim to be Catholic.

Getting to know people on the Internet is art. Being a good moderator or being a good testimony to those on the Internet is the artsy part of the job.

It's kinda like being a good consultant to a business but being heavily technical. Technical guys can't talk to business folk very well...their communication skills are horrible -- kinda like the geeky dude on Alias.

But if you're technical, and personible, then you're an asset, because you can show value to the business because you can speak to them and "dumb it down" for them...and everyone ends up liking you because you made them understand it better...and you're real.

"People" aren't stupid..."people" can spot someone who is spreading bologna just by hearing them over the phone, or reading posts on the 'Net...like the car salesmen dude with the two gun salute and the wink...

You gotta be real and no holds barred when ya talk to people...

It's the same thing with online ministry.

 

[Miss Shelby]

The other day, it was posted that we should be as patient and charitable with the 268th "why do you worship Mary" as with the first. (or something like that).I agree, but after having done this for the umpteenth time, do any of you get weary? I wonder how and why there are so many misconceptions so widely believed. They come from all corners of the faith spectrum. I have an idea as to why they are so strongly believed, but I really question the value sometimes of these discussion forums and their effect on non-Catholics. Ar we really making any progress???

God's Peace and Grace be with,

Veritas

I don't think that we can ever know how many people we reach when we are explaining our beliefs via the internet. We just don't know what our progress is. Let's face it, we are not going to see the fruit or non fruit of that reward in full. I agree that it gets frustrating when you explain something over and over and it seems that you're getting nowhere. But if for every ten people who argue with us and accuse us all sorts of ridiculous practices (such as idolatry)--there is one person out there who hears and understands the truth of it, isn't that worth the effort?

I don't want to preach to the choir because I know I have been guilty of losing my temper, not only on this board but on others...but I think a charitable attitude (especially when being afronted with an uncharitable one) is probably the best course of action. It takes discernment to know when you're wasting your're time and when you're not, and if it seems that they aren't listening and you've said something at least twice, then shake off the dust. Which is another mistake I have made multitudes of times, (not shaking the dust off and throwing my pearls to pigs) but... hey, you live and learn.

Michelle

 

[Stormy]

The other day, it was posted that we should be as patient and charitable with the 268th "why do you worship Mary" as with the first. (or something like that).I agree, but after having done this for the umpteenth time, do any of you get weary? I wonder how and why there are so many misconceptions so widely believed. They come from all corners of the faith spectrum. I have an idea as to why they are so strongly believed, but I really question the value sometimes of these discussion forums and their effect on non-Catholics. Ar we really making any progress???

God's Peace and Grace be with,

Veritas

YES!!!! You are making progress!!

Look at me! I was one of those "Why do you worship Mary?" people!

I am now in RCIA, and loving every minute spent in my new church home!

Thank You!

 

[KennySe]

There will always be newly born Christians, who sign up on CF.

And for the times they have heard negatively of organized Christianity, THIS NOW is their opportunity to ask us directly to explain ourselves.

For the sake of those who ask with an open heart, we must carry on; bear that cross.

 

[Veritas]

YES!!!! You are making progress!!

Look at me! I was one of those "Why do you worship Mary?" people!

I am now in RCIA, and loving every minute spent in my new church home!

Thank You!

Thanks for your response, Stormy! I thank God that your heart was open to hear His voice. I doubt I've had any effect, being new, but I bless those on this forum who've helped lead you in your current direction through their efforts. Cyberspace has been an interesting experiment in the world of evangelism. I imagine the Lord is having a good time with all of this; especially those who think we worship Mary. I'm going to keep you in mind when I'm next confronted with someone who attacks the Church for what she doesn't believe...always remembering that patient, gentle correction can lead to BIG things!


Veritas

 

[Oblio]

The same sort of questions were asked at TBTSNBN a year or so ago, the difference being that we took (as did any Catholics) real abuse from both the membership and staff, cyber-martydom and confession if you will. Turns out that one of the inquirers asking about Orthodoxy over there has become Orthodox and one of our most valued and talented defenders of the faith on line, and I am sure IRL too.

 

[Bayhawks83]

whats TBTSNBN?

 

[Acceptance]

Veritas,

BAChristian also started on this forum as a...baptist was it?...and now he's in RCIA too. -- 2/9ths or 22.2% of the posts on this thread so far have been people who the internet answers have helped convert
*removes nerdy glasses* ...uh, dude

 

[Oblio]

whats TBTSNBN?

The Board That Shall Not Be Named

A supposedly Christian Message Board that allowed unfettered attacks of Christians (Catholics, Orthodox), censoring thier posts and banning them should they dare to even state their doctrines and beliefs, let alone defend them against those that disagreed with them. All the while they would allow Arians, JW's, Mormons, atheists and the like to post their heretical views with nary a blink of an eye.

There is more than one out there, I let you guess whch one I speak of

 

[Bayhawks83]

you want me to guess? i guess christianity.com

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

You would be surprised.

Remember to look at it from a newcomer's PoV. Consider the following: This is your first time you've ever came to CF. You start to do a search, and all you get are hyperlinks to more information. Do you think you'd stick around? Sure, you'd probably research the links, but would perspectives from laity help you more? Of course they would.

So with that said, you'd probably stick around and want to get to know the people who claim to be Catholic.

Getting to know people on the Internet is art. Being a good moderator or being a good testimony to those on the Internet is the artsy part of the job.

It's kinda like being a good consultant to a business but being heavily technical. Technical guys can't talk to business folk very well...their communication skills are horrible -- kinda like the geeky dude on Alias.

But if you're technical, and personible, then you're an asset, because you can show value to the business because you can speak to them and "dumb it down" for them...and everyone ends up liking you because you made them understand it better...and you're real.

"People" aren't stupid..."people" can spot someone who is spreading bologna just by hearing them over the phone, or reading posts on the 'Net...like the car salesmen dude with the two gun salute and the wink...

You gotta be real and no holds barred when ya talk to people...

It's the same thing with online ministry.

keep on keeping on!

Hebrews 12:1-2

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God."

 

[Hoonbaba]

The other day, it was posted that we should be as patient and charitable with the 268th "why do you worship Mary" as with the first. (or something like that).I agree, but after having done this for the umpteenth time, do any of you get weary? I wonder how and why there are so many misconceptions so widely believed. They come from all corners of the faith spectrum. I have an idea as to why they are so strongly believed, but I really question the value sometimes of these discussion forums and their effect on non-Catholics. Ar we really making any progress???

God's Peace and Grace be with,

Veritas

I'm also a very recent convert (turned Catholic this past sunday!), and I'm one of those former Catholic bashers who said, "Why do you guys worship Mary?!"

Ultimately, I think the problem stems from interpreting expressions of Catholic piety. For example, when I see a person bow before a statue of Mary, it's easy to think she's being worshipped, or that the statue is being worshipped.

Yet I know better. Likewise, when I attended a very conservative protestant church, I found it strange to see modern worship where people raise their hands in the air. To me it seemed a bit too attention drawing like it's a form of self-glorification. Some others from my old church I know felt the same way until they knew it's a expression of Christian piety.

A friend of mine thought that the Pope is literally worshipped. Yet, we know that's not the case, but it seriously looks like it. And this (I think) is where the misconceptions begin formulating.

-Jason

 

[BAChristian]

BAChristian also started on this forum as a...baptist was it?

Nazarene actually.

We're not as liberal as those darn Baptists!

I'm joking folks...I'm joking.

 

[Eleana]

Pls be reminded that not everyone who questioned about issues of catholicism is looking for trouble or just to stir up something to debate on...

There are ppl around who sincerely want to learn abt catholicism. Pls be patient with us. When issues are clarified, it is very beneficial to us, because sometimes we can't find a place for catholic interactions or someone to clarify our doubts. Even now I still cant confirm whether I'm a catholic or not...just coz alot of doctrines and teaching of catholicism I really dont understand (Doctrines abt Virgin Mary is one of them). By asking questions (probably been asked by alot of ppl--the same old weary issues), it makes me understand better. Kindly be patient with us if we do brought up issues which may frustrate you....

 

[sklippstein]

Oh pulezzzzzzz! Most of y'all have kvetched, moaned and groaned over the same questions asked over and over again!

So I guess I'll be ONE of the few who give an honest answer here.

Veritas....YES I do get tired of defending my faith as to the idolatry of Mary and worshipping that antichrist Pope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I do realize that SOME do come in good faith and are only wanting to find out the truth and to those who do I DO and WILL answer in charity.

God bless.

 

[Oblio]

you want me to guess? i guess christianity.com

 

[Preachers12]

Brethren in Christ, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.

It is good that people keep asking! Much better than their propogating misperceptions and lies among themselves!

Think of it this way. Many of those who have been here awhile have responded many times to these questions. But there are some here who are new and are just learning the faith who have not responded. Before you jump in and respond as you have many many times, give those new people a chance to practice their apologetics. Send them pms to let them know how they are doing or guide them. If they are way off course, let them know. If they are doing great, let them know.

I have noticed a big change in the time I have been here. There are several people who used to respond to everything. And very well at that. Now there is a sort of new "group" here who is carrying on the tradition and honing their skills. In another year, it will hopefully be yet another group.

Also, I personally learn something pretty much every time I see these "attacks" as well as the legitimate questions. It forces me to re-think my response and to articulate it once again. Sometimes in doing so, I learn a little something new which, I feel, increases my faith. Also, I personally learn from our responses. Sometimes someone takes a path I had not thought of before and one much better than I had been using. Again, my faith is increased along with my ability to understand and defend it.

I agree with what so many have already said about the effectiveness here of responding repeatedly. We have several people now part of the Church who spent part of their journey home here. Isn't it wonderful!

God Bless all of you who ask and all of you who answer! May your faith and it's fruits increase through the grace of God.

God Bless,
P12

Edit: See Rev 14:12

 

[pmarquette]

I'm also a very recent convert (turned Catholic this past sunday!), and I'm one of those former Catholic bashers who said, "Why do you guys worship Mary?!"
Ultimately, I think the problem stems from interpreting expressions of Catholic piety. For example, when I see a person bow before a statue of Mary, it's easy to think she's being worshipped, or that the statue is being worshipped........................................................

In our language the word " worship " can mean honor , venerate , adore , submit , follow , obsessed , give obesiance , worship , etc. and within our faith , each of the original words were entirely different .

Many people still have a big problem with Icons , for they have been taught the wrong spin , by church , by books , by inference , by offense ....

We cannot make anyone change , that is the work of the Holy Spirit , upon conviction of their spirit .
We tend to pickup on the secular management technique , that if we get a big enough hammer , we can pound square pegs into round holes ...... but forget , a man convinced against their will , is of the same opinion still , a friend offended is harder to win than a walled city ...

How many people walk around as a moving poster for NASCAR , Sports , Movies , Music ...
some ICON of fame and fortune , rap or motion pictures ..... are they " worshiping " the Cow Boys , Dale Everheart ?

How can you love me you cannot see , when you cannot get along with your brother you can see ?

 

[Veritas]

Oh pulezzzzzzz! Most of y'all have kvetched, moaned and groaned over the same questions asked over and over again!

So I guess I'll be ONE of the few who give an honest answer here.

Veritas....YES I do get tired of defending my faith as to the idolatry of Mary and worshipping that antichrist Pope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I do realize that SOME do come in good faith and are only wanting to find out the truth and to those who do I DO and WILL answer in charity.

God bless.

Well yes, I kind of agree on this. There seem to be some who are professional "anti-Catholics". Even when you provide them with well thought-out responses and rationale, they continue to accuse you of worshipping Mary (just using that as an example). So in reality, they are not interested in the truth that you present that is the Catholic faith, but rather just baiting.
As you say however, if they come in good faith and are sincerely looking for answers, I want to be kind and patient with them. I can see from some of the other responses, that these folks are genuine seekers and to them I ask God to bless! So I try always to start out assuming the best until they prove otherwise. I've dealt with some pretty nasty Protestants who apparently have been strongly indoctrinated (like my sister) and have no real interest in honest dialogue.
BTW, some of the most anti-Catholic are ex-Catholic. No surprise there, huh?

Veritas