antichrist

gord44 · Nov 29, 2013

i woke up this morning (Black Friday) and saw on the news the lines of shoppers being herded like animals until the gates opened and they stampeded through stores to buy as much stuff as they could. There is your anti-Christ there. Not some mythical creature, but worship and glorification of the very thing that Jesus preached against.

stenerson · Nov 29, 2013

gordRedeemed said:
i woke up this morning (Black Friday) and saw on the news the lines of shoppers being herded like animals until the gates opened and they stampeded through stores to buy as much stuff as they could. There is your anti-Christ there. Not some mythical creature, but worship and glorification of the very thing that Jesus preached against.

Consumerism, love of money, things etc. was always prevalent. Anti-Christ insinuates a system of worship that deceives many by imitating the real thing. Paul warns that one can be deceived by a another gospel, a another Christ and another spirit.

gord44 · Nov 29, 2013

stenerson said:
Consumerism, love of money, things etc. was always prevalent. Anti-Christ insinuates a system of worship that deceives many by imitating the real thing. Paul warns that one can be deceived by a another gospel, a another Christ and another spirit.

Yes. I know the 'official' idea of what the anti-christ is. Problem is those anti-christs come and go with little to no effect. Seems to me it is something a lot less 'sinister' on the outside, but way more sneaky in truth. People are always looking for the obvious. The anti-Christ to me is the pursuit of;

1. Comfort
2. Security
3. Power

All three rely on materialism and worldliness. Jesus turned down all three when he was tempted in the wilderness.

My 2 cents anyways. Not as fun or glamorous as looking for the 'evil' anti christ. Especially when we do it in our comfy easy chairs by a warm fire reading our leather bound bibles.

stenerson · Nov 29, 2013

gordRedeemed said:
Yes. I know the 'official' idea of what the anti-christ is. Problem is those anti-christs come and go with little to no effect. Seems to me it is something a lot less 'sinister' on the outside, but way more sneaky in truth. People are always looking for the obvious. The anti-Christ to me is the pursuit of;

1. Comfort
2. Security
3. Power

All three rely on materialism and worldliness. Jesus turned down all three when he was tempted in the wilderness.

My 2 cents anyways. Not as fun or glamorous as looking for the 'evil' anti christ. Especially when we do it in our comfy easy chairs by a warm fire reading our leather bound bibles.

Blatant worldliness can not be the Anti-Christ. That always existed, long before the Apostles warned of the soon and future coming of anti-Christ. Anti-Christ clothes itself with phoney piety, pretending to be Christ/God.
You're right though in being disgusted at black Friday's idolatrous consumerism.
There are 1.2 billion roman catholics in the world. Their leader holds the title of "vicar of Christ" and "Holy Father" and sits enthroned like an emperor, people coming from all over the world for a chance to literally kiss his feet and adore him. Definitely IMHO the spirit of anti-Christ working here.

gord44 · Nov 29, 2013

What if the pope is just a side effect of what is anti-Christ? The 'imperialization' of Christianity is anti-Christ in nature. Perhaps Constantine then is the anti-Christ if we want to talk about a more historical idea. When Christianity became the Imperial state religion, it became infected with the spirit of anti-Christ and the marginalization of Jesus' radical and revolutionary message began.

stenerson · Nov 29, 2013

I do believe that the establishment of the Roman Empire into "The Holy Roman Empire" is very telling..The Church became corrupt and actually worked for centuries to repress and stifle important scriptural truths as well as the purity of the gospel. Millions of saints have been tortured and killed by the Papacy. I'm not pretending to know exactly who the anti-Christ is, or will be, but I find it hard to believe that Popery does not posess the spirit of anti-Christ.
Many fundamentalist I believe are looking in the wrong direction when they believe it is some secularists, atheist, leftist government or a religion like Islam.

JM · Jun 19, 2014

Pope calls Muslims 'brothers' at Dome of the Rock

Pope Francis embraces rabbi and Muslim leader at Western Wall | CatholicHerald.co.uk

JM · Jun 19, 2014

Here is a definition most Reformers would have used for the Antichirst.

The Term Antichrist: "We shall not go far afield in this discussion: nor is it in the least necessary to do so. The materials for a right decision on the question before us lie close at hand. The Apostle John, speaking of the great apostacy to arise in Christendom, calls it the Antichrist. And the Pope has taken to himself, as the name that best describes his office, the title Vicar of Christ. All we shall ask as the basis of our argument are these two accepted facts, namely, that John styles the apostacy, the Antichrist, and that the head of the Roman system styles himself Christs Vicar.

The Papacy holds in its name the key of its meaning. We shall make use of that key in unlocking its mystery and true character. The Papacy cannot complain though weadopt this line of interpretation. We do nothing more than use the key it has put into our hands. The Apostle John, we have said, speaking of the apostacy, the coming of which he predicts, styles it the Antichrist. And we have also said that the Papacy, speaking through its representative and head, calls itself the Vicar of Christ. The first, Antichrist, is a Greek word, the second, Vicar, is an English word; but the two are in reality one, for both words have the same meaning. Antichrist translated into English is vice-Christ, or Vicar of Christ; and Vicar of Christ, rendered into Greek is Antichrist Antichristos.

If we can establish this and the ordinary use of the word by those to whom the Greek was a vernacular, isdecisive on the point we shall have no difficulty in showing that this is the meaning of the word Antichrist, even a Vice-Christ. And if so, then every time the Pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ, he pleads at the bar of the world that he is the Antichrist. Moreover, this will clear our way and simplify our discussion. For, let it be noted, if Antichrist signifies a Vice-Christ that is, one who comes in the room of Christ deception, dissimulation, counterfeit, must be an essential element in his character. In whatever persons or systems that fundamental characteristic is lacking, we fail to find the Antichrist, whatever may be their general opposition to Christ and to Christianity, or whatever other features of the Antichrist they may bear. They may have every othercharacteristic by which prophecy had described this noted adversary of Christ and his gospel, yet, lacking thisfundamental one, their claim to this pre-eminently evil distinction cannot be admitted. This enables us to dismisssummarily and at once a host of Antichrists which have been conjured up by persons who have drawn upon their imagination, rather than followed any sound principle of prophetic interpretation. The cause of the papacy is served by the false glosses and mistaken interpretations of Scripture which interpose a pseudo-antichrist betwixt it and Prophecy, which unfolds against it so black a record, and suspends above it so terrible a doom.

We shall suppose that an atheist or an infidel has been put to the bar to answer to a charge of being the Antichrist. He has manifested a Satanic malignity against the Gospel, and has laboured to the utmost of his power to destroy it. He has blasphemed God, execrated Christ, and derided, vilified, and persecuted all who profess His name, and on these grounds he has been assumed to be the Antichrist. The case is no imaginary one. Atheists and scoffers in former ages, Voltaire and Paine in later times, Communists and Pantheists in our own day, have all been arraigned as the Antichrist. Well, let us suppose that one or other of these notoriously wicked personages or systems has been put to the bar, on the charge of being theadversary predicted by John. Who are you? says the judge. Are you aVice-Christ? So you make a profession ofChristianity, and under that pretext seek to undermine and destroy it? No, replies theaccused. I am no counterfeit. Christ and His Gospel I hate; but I am an open enemy, I fight under no mask. Turning tothe likeness drawn by Paul and John of Christs great rival and opponent, and finding the outstanding and essential feature in the portrait absent in the accused, the judge would be constrained to say, I do not find the charge proven. Go your way; you are not the Antichrist.

Mohammedanism comes nearer than any other of the opposing systems to the Antichrist of the Bible; yet it falls a long way short of it. Mohamet did not disavow the mission of Jesus; on the contrary, he professed to hold Him in honour as a prophet. And in much the same way do His followers still feel towards Christ. But Islam does not profess to be an imitation of Christianity. Any counterfeit that can be discovered in Mohammedanism is partial and shadowy when placed alongside the bold, sharp-cut counterfeit of Romanism. It requires a violent stretch of imagination to accept Mohammedanism, or, indeed, any other known ism, as a Vice-Christ. Of all systems that ever were on the earth, or are now upon it, Romanism alone meets all the requirements of prophecy, and exhibits all the features of the Vice-Christ; and it does so with a completeness and a truthfulness which enable the man who permits himself to be guided by the statements of the Word of God on the one hand, and the facts of history on the other, to say at once, "This is the Antichrist."

What we have said is meant to indicate the lines on which our demonstration will proceed. We must trace the parallelism betwixt their respective chiefs, Christ and the Pope, along the entire line of their career. In this parallelism lies the essence of Antichristianism, and of course the strength of our argument. It is this counterfeit, so exact and complete, which has misled the world into the belief that this is Christianity, to the waste of ages not a few, the unsettling and overthrow of kingdoms, the stunting of the human understanding, and the loss of millions of immortal souls." J. A. Wylie

JoshuaDaryl · Jun 20, 2014

gordRedeemed said:
Yes. Sorry should have said that. My guess is the Apostle John was probably already dead. But who knows. Just a personal view. I suspect the early supporters of Revelation attached the Apostle to it, to give it some extra weight and credibility.

The book of Revelations was formed from a compilation of letters John wrote of visions he had from God while he was imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos.

Bible Study - Who Wrote The Book Of Revelation?

although The Apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation (and the Gospel of John), and although Revelation has sometimes been referred to as "The Revelation of St. John the Divine" (King James), God was, and is, the ultimate source of all that is in the Book of Revelation. It originated from God, was given to Jesus Christ, Who delivered it by "His angel" to John while the apostle was being held as a prisoner by the Romans (see Ancient Empires - Rome) on The Island Of Patmos some time after 90 AD. John then addressed it to The Seven Churches of Asia, as instructed

"I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also." (1 John 2:21-23 RSV)

The antichrist, and a antichrist, are two different people. THE AntiChrist is yet to be revealed, whereas many antichrist have come and gone, and many are all around us, as John says an antichrist is a liar, who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

The word antichrist is derived from the original New Testament Greek word pronounced antichristos, which means someone who opposes, and/or takes the place of, the true Messiah.

Although the "spirit of the antichrist" (1 John 4:3) has been around for a very long time, and there were relatively minor examples of antichrists long ago (1 John 2:18-19), the ultimate end-time antichrist, identified variously as the "lawless one" or "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:9) or "beast" (all of Revelation 13) is going to be more evil and more incredibly powerful (made possible by That Old Serpent) than any human that has ever existed. In a way, he will be the embodiment of Satan himself because no one is more anti-Christ than Satan.

I believe the stage is being set. I also believe that in no other time could The Antichrist have come, because satan would want to make sure that he was able to influence the entire world, at no other time could this be accomplished. History proves time and again that the lack of modern technologies in transportation, and communication, limited the size of nations. Nations like Rome would spread far and wide, the the edges would start to crumble as the government could not oversee them. It could take days, weeks, or months to travel distances, and things can change rapidly. Now we can communicate with anyone anywhere in the world instantly, you can travel to anywhere on the planet in a matter of hours, and you can control the finances of the world with a button, destroy a city with a single bomb, these things were never dreamed of before.

JoshuaDaryl · Jun 20, 2014

JM said:
Here is a definition most Reformers would have used for the Antichirst.

The Term Antichrist: "We shall not go far afield in this discussion: nor is it in the least necessary to do so. The materials for a right decision on the question before us lie close at hand. The Apostle John, speaking of the great apostacy to arise in Christendom, calls it the Antichrist. And the Pope has taken to himself, as the name that best describes his office, the title Vicar of Christ. All we shall ask as the basis of our argument are these two accepted facts, namely, that John styles the apostacy, the Antichrist, and that the head of the Roman system styles himself Christs Vicar.

The Papacy holds in its name the key of its meaning. We shall make use of that key in unlocking its mystery and true character. The Papacy cannot complain though weadopt this line of interpretation. We do nothing more than use the key it has put into our hands. The Apostle John, we have said, speaking of the apostacy, the coming of which he predicts, styles it the Antichrist. And we have also said that the Papacy, speaking through its representative and head, calls itself the Vicar of Christ. The first, Antichrist, is a Greek word, the second, Vicar, is an English word; but the two are in reality one, for both words have the same meaning. Antichrist translated into English is vice-Christ, or Vicar of Christ; and Vicar of Christ, rendered into Greek is Antichrist Antichristos.

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There actually is much support for the Pope to be identified as the antichrist in alternative news.

http://www.a
nnomundi.com/history/europe.htm

EUobserver / Croatian Catholic church clarifes pro-EU position

As Spain's people drift from Catholic Church, government cozies up - CSMonitor.com

These are just few clips, its easy to dismiss, but if one pauses for a second, they see how much the catholic church is involved with european politics, we did not leave it in the past.

JM · Jun 20, 2014

JoshuaDaryl said:
There actually is much support for the Pope to be identified as the antichrist in alternative news.

http://www.a
nnomundi.com/history/europe.htm

EUobserver / Croatian Catholic church clarifes pro-EU position

As Spain's people drift from Catholic Church, government cozies up - CSMonitor.com

These are just few clips, its easy to dismiss, but if one pauses for a second, they see how much the catholic church is involved with european politics, we did not leave it in the past.

drjean · Jul 17, 2014

Though I am currently Presbyterian (and have been for many years) it was always discussed in years past how the Presbyterians didn't understand nor really study prophecy. (I'm old, give me credit.)

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty who do study and understand (I sat under the pastorship of D James Kennedy...who did hold his own on this...)

Anyway, I 'm not posting to offend but to guide?

There will be a false prophet and a world leader, two beasts at first. The false prophet, according to Catholic prophecy, is this current Pope who will leave the faith--he already has in fact done so, one way by telling atheists to just do their best as we're all going to heaven anyway... (this is an interesting study ...how the previous 2 Popes tried to prevent it).... Anyway, the world will be divided up into 10 divisions and a leader of the world will be selected/appointed.

IMO Obama fits most of the description of the NWO leader (but satan has never known when Christ would return and thus has always had to have someone "in the wings" in case...which is why we've heard rumors that so and so must be the antichrist and no, then so and so is...)

After the rapture of the believers, the two will control the world through religion and politics...for the most part. The World Leader will sign a peace treaty with Israel, for the world... (another interesting study this is because why would anyone feel like they have to sign a peace treaty with Israel unless God had just given them a huge victory over their enemies..??)

After this 7 year peace treaty is signed, at the 3 1/2 year mark the World Leader removes or eliminates the false prophet, becomes possessed by Satan, takes control of the temple worship and insists that unless the world worships himself, they will not be allowed to buy, sell, live (without taking the mark of 666 proving they worship the antichrist) and will be beheaded if found out. (The abomination of desolation...perhaps he offers a pig as a sacrifice or requires one to himself, such as Antiochus Epiphanes did, a forerunner of the antichrist.)

So in a nutshell, after the believers are removed there are 2 world leaders, one religious and one political. The political one removes the religious one as he is taken over by satan. This prepares the world for the great battle with God... Armageddon at the end of the 7 year tribulation.

Questions? (Sorry if I've confused anyone).

twin1954 · Jul 18, 2014

drjean said:
Though I am currently Presbyterian (and have been for many years) it was always discussed in years past how the Presbyterians didn't understand nor really study prophecy. (I'm old, give me credit.)

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty who do study and understand (I sat under the pastorship of D James Kennedy...who did hold his own on this...)

Anyway, I 'm not posting to offend but to guide?

There will be a false prophet and a world leader, two beasts at first. The false prophet, according to Catholic prophecy, is this current Pope who will leave the faith--he already has in fact done so, one way by telling atheists to just do their best as we're all going to heaven anyway... (this is an interesting study ...how the previous 2 Popes tried to prevent it).... Anyway, the world will be divided up into 10 divisions and a leader of the world will be selected/appointed.

IMO Obama fits most of the description of the NWO leader (but satan has never known when Christ would return and thus has always had to have someone "in the wings" in case...which is why we've heard rumors that so and so must be the antichrist and no, then so and so is...)

After the rapture of the believers, the two will control the world through religion and politics...for the most part. The World Leader will sign a peace treaty with Israel, for the world... (another interesting study this is because why would anyone feel like they have to sign a peace treaty with Israel unless God had just given them a huge victory over their enemies..??)

After this 7 year peace treaty is signed, at the 3 1/2 year mark the World Leader removes or eliminates the false prophet, becomes possessed by Satan, takes control of the temple worship and insists that unless the world worships himself, they will not be allowed to buy, sell, live (without taking the mark of 666 proving they worship the antichrist) and will be beheaded if found out. (The abomination of desolation...perhaps he offers a pig as a sacrifice or requires one to himself, such as Antiochus Epiphanes did, a forerunner of the antichrist.)

So in a nutshell, after the believers are removed there are 2 world leaders, one religious and one political. The political one removes the religious one as he is taken over by satan. This prepares the world for the great battle with God... Armageddon at the end of the 7 year tribulation.

Questions? (Sorry if I've confused anyone).

Is your position different than Kennedy's was? I thought Kennedy was postmil hence his seeming focus on the political.

drjean · Aug 1, 2014

He may have leaned that way (James Kennedy) but he never put his foot down on anything concrete about it...

It's amazing how the continued study of end times continues to show God's enlightenment (if I may borrow that term) and revealing of what has always been in His Word but we never had understanding for it. Some things we thought we knew, could rationalize others...but now, it's truly becoming "known" as we are so close!

I find it exciting.

As for the antichrist we just won't know till we know. I head some thought that Eckhart Tolle would be him...and he is from Germany... <shakes head> I believe the antichrist is not just "in the wings" of the theater but that he is someone of whom we are already aware--just not in that position.

The latest events with Israel adds to the excitement, though sad in reality, it's a real "keep looking up" scenario for me.

gord44 · Aug 1, 2014

drjean said:
I believe the antichrist is not just "in the wings" of the theater but that he is someone of whom we are already aware--just not in that position.

That's assuming that the end times are near. Every generation of Christians over 2000 years has assumed they were the 'last' generation. The one that would see it all happen....

JM · Aug 1, 2014

Today at lunch I sat outside a "church" reading scripture and prayed against antichrist.

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the (don't want another warning this week so I'll remove the name) in the Church of #### there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description." - Spurgeon

gord44 · Aug 1, 2014

JM said:
Today at lunch I sat outside a "church" reading scripture and prayed against antichrist.

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the (don't want another warning this week so I'll remove the name) in the Church of #### there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description." - Spurgeon

At least your view is a bit more rational and grounded in actual study of scripture then all the boogeymen that end timers like to come up with.

JM · Aug 1, 2014

I boil it down to the Gospel. What is it? What is it not? Who is preaching a false Gospel system? Who represents or heads up the false church(es)?

JM · Jun 1, 2015

I really dislike Dispensationism but John MacArthur is spot on the Pope and the Papacy.

stenerson · Jun 1, 2015

JM said:
I really dislike Dispensationism but John MacArthur is spot on the Pope and the Papacy.

I've heard some very good excerpts from his preaching on Roman Catholicism. I like MacArthur's no holds barred critique of Romanism.

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