Anthropic Principle

[Yamialpha]

What is everyone's take on the anthropic principle? What do you believe has been "monkeying with the physics" (quote I believe from Fred Hoyle)? Do you believe that it supports the evidence of a Creator (as many in the ID movement apparently do since it has been brought up in many of the ID commentaries I've read), or that science will one day be able to logically explain the anthropic principle doing away with the need for God?

 

[arunma]

I think that the anthropic principle is good evidence of a Creator. But I think it goes beyond the fact that the universe was designed specifically for our existence. Everything I know about physics seems to say that the universe is God's playground. For example, I think it's pretty cool that the permittivity of free space multiplied by the permeability of free space is equal to one divided by the square of the speed of light. I think it's neat that Planck's Constant is big enough to cause quantum effects that sometimes have macroscopic consequences, yet small enough that we don't notice quantum mechanics in our every day lives. It's really funny that electron wave functions work out just right so that sigma bonds are flexible, while pi bonds are rigid. And hey, the amazing symmetry of Maxwell's Equations is just plain sweet.

Yeah...I've got to watch out for that inner physics nerd. When he escapes, it's hard to put him in his place (but hey, I am a physics major, cut me some slack). In any case, I think that physics is perhaps the best evidence of God's handiwork. Just like Psalm 19:1 says, "the heavens declare the glory of God."

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

Plus the fact the 1 over the root of mu-sub-0 times epsilon-sub-0 also equals the speed of light. And the sheer beauty of a derivative with respect to time of an integral with respect to area...pure genius and perfect elegance.

Although I have a decent knowledge of physics, I'm not sure what the "anthropic principle" is. Could you please fill me in? It sounds interesting.

 

[arunma]

The anthropic principle is the observation that the universe has been finely tuned, so that human life may exist. If any of the constants of nature were even slightly different, humans wouldn't exist.

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

The anthropic principle is the observation that the universe has been finely tuned, so that human life may exist. If any of the constants of nature were even slightly different, humans wouldn't exist.

Well, in that case, I'd say it's about the best scientific evidence we will have of God. Personally, I don't think that it is possible to prove beyond a doubt that God exists. If He were to allow us to, it would destroy the purpose of belief, which is a major part of Christianity. There will always need to be a step of faith beyond what science says, but I'd say that that principal comes close.

 

[billwald]

It is circular and doesn't give any new information. "What is, is."

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

It is circular and doesn't give any new information. "What is, is."

I have heard this principle before I've just never heard it's name. It is not the fact that stuff is, it is how it is. The fact that everything works out so perfectly when so many millions of variables could have been off by just a small amount, and we could not have existed. It is also what we have said. That stuff comes out perfectly. There are relationships between equations, constants, properties, etc. That are so unusual and strange, and there are so many of them, it just doesn't seem like it could be a mere coincidence. There has to be some sort of intervention by a greater power.

 

[Locrian]

Plus the fact the 1 over the root of mu-sub-0 times epsilon-sub-0 also equals the speed of light. And the sheer beauty of a derivative with respect to time of an integral with respect to area...pure genius and perfect elegance.

Haha, that's awesome. I hope you don't mind if I use those?

I think others may have missed your sarcasm though.

 

[AV1611VET]

What is everyone's take on the anthropic principle?

Without the anthropic principle, we would not be made in God's likeness & image.

Here are some of the variables.

 

[Ryal Kane]

I have heard this principle before I've just never heard it's name. It is not the fact that stuff is, it is how it is. The fact that everything works out so perfectly when so many millions of variables could have been off by just a small amount, and we could not have existed. It is also what we have said. That stuff comes out perfectly. There are relationships between equations, constants, properties, etc. That are so unusual and strange, and there are so many of them, it just doesn't seem like it could be a mere coincidence. There has to be some sort of intervention by a greater power.

But if it were something different then we wouldn't be here to note it. Imagine a billion possible universes with a billion variants is physics. If only one of them allows life, then yes, it is rare, but it does not mean it was designed.

Or, as a wise man once said.

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'

 

[AV1611VET]

But if it were something different then we wouldn't be here to note it. Imagine a billion possible universes with a billion variants is physics. If only one of them allows life, then yes, it is rare, but it does not mean it was designed.

Or, as a wise man once said.

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'

Then let Mr. Adams worry about that, if he wants to.

We Christians know better.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What is everyone's take on the anthropic principle?

A fancy way of saying "The universe really does revolve around me."

 

[Nathan Poe]

The anthropic principle is the observation that the universe has been finely tuned, so that human life may exist. If any of the constants of nature were even slightly different, humans wouldn't exist.

Which is kind of silly, when you think about it -- considering that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of the known universe is quite unsuitable for human life to exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

A fancy way of saying "The universe really does revolve around me."

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[Nathan Poe]

352

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I've never cared for your counting threads before, so I'll do you the courtesy of not pretending to start now.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which is kind of silly, when you think about it -- considering that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of the known universe is quite unsuitable for human life to exist.

In this dispensation -- yes.

 

[Nathan Poe]

In this dispensation -- yes.

But in the Strawberry Custard Dispensation -- Why not?

But seriously -- in the next dispensation (*chuckle*) will God be giving you an overhaul to fit the universe, or giving the universe an overhaul to fit you?

 

[AV1611VET]

But seriously -- in the next dispensation (*chuckle*) will God be giving you an overhaul to fit the universe, or giving the universe an overhaul to fit you?

Both:

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Albeit the [Biblical] big bang (2 Peter 3:10) occurs after the next dispensation.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Then let Mr. Adams worry about that, if he wants to.

We Christians know better.

You hide the knowledge well.

 

[Rilke's Granddaughter]

Then let Mr. Adams worry about that, if he wants to.

We Christians know better.

No, actually you don't. The Muslims know better. They said so.