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MorkandMindy

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1. One way of looking at the 2016 election is the time-honoured method of taking sides, with voters picking Republican or Democrat candidates irrespective of the actual reality.


Going back to 1916 it was the Democrat candidate reelected on the slogan "he kept us out of war".

But there was an inconsistency in his thinking, although anti war he was also strongly pro British.

So it came down to the big money. Gun and ammo makers, uniform makers, big banks, rail and shipping all could see the advantages of the government pouring money into their pockets, and the media shed all pretensions of accuracy and copying the British propaganda methods, turned public opinion around and we had war.

So hold a Democrat responsible for that one, and the consequences too. Though progress was slow and halting some might argue the European powers might have produced a meaningful Armistice. With the US joining the Allied Powers, although called an 'Armistice' it was actually a victory and the subsequent fines had a key role in starting WW2.

A Democrat in the WH at the start of WW2, ditto getting engaged into the Vietnam War, and that war was a big one by the way, contrary to public opinion.


But the parties have switched about several times since then.

Around 1973 the oil companies switched to, well basically took over, the Republican Party, and all the small government prudent fiscal policy traditions and membership just got pushed off the table as the Republican Party was now the party of war and huge military expenditure.

But by 2016 the table was the other way around again, the Democrat candidate having already started a few wars, the Republican candidate talking to the Russians in the hope of avoiding a war.


But unlike 1916 now the big money isn't playing second fiddle, it is in charge whoever gets in, so the difference is more a way of thinking of things than it is a reality, more what we chose than what we are going to get.

Here is lunch. You can call it a hamburger, you can call it a meat sandwich, I call it a laminated multi-source food, it is still exactly the same thing. But I'm really pleased we elected the multi-source food instead of a meat sandwich.


Talking Democrat / Republican is easy but not generally causes more confusion than there was there in the first place, and from the first couple of weeks after the election the Washington Consensus runs the show anyway, so it is mainly the words that are different.
 

bhsmte

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IMO, the 2016 election process, from the primaries on, was a strong message towards how fed up many people were with establishment politics and this was the main driver.

16 people ran in the republican primary and the guy who won, was not the guy the republican establishment wanted to win.

On the democratic primary, Hilary was the chosen one and Sanders ended up winning 20 states (much more than anyone anticipated) and the biggest clue of what was to come that people missed; Sanders beat Clinton in a couple of those key rust belt states, when the polls showed Clinton ahead. This was a major clue, of what the dems in those states, thought of Clinton.

So, we end up with two candidates which are number one and number two, in unpopularity ratings (go figure). And, Clinton lost, because fewer; blacks, women and hispanics were willing to vote for her in those key rust belt states, compared to what Obama did. What did Clinton in, is she is and was, the absolute poster child for; establishment/elitist politicians.
 
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Always in His Presence

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IMO, the 2016 election process, from the primaries on, was a strong message towards how fed up many people were with establishment politics and this was the main driver.

QFT
 
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jayem

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But by 2016 the table was the other way around again, the Democrat candidate having already started a few wars, the Republican candidate talking to the Russians in the hope of avoiding a war.

The current Republican President was quite bellicose as a candidate. He threatened to send 30,000 soldiers to fight in Iraq and Syria. And so far, he's sent a giant bomb. Regarding the Russians, he's attacked an ally of theirs with Tomahawk missiles. And he's responding belligerently to North Korea. Not that all of these aren't bad dudes. But he's putting us in the same go-it-alone, policeman-of-the-world role that's gotten us in deep trouble, and even deeper debt. Is he the mother of the all bombast--mostly talk with a few slaps on the wrist? Or is he a genuine war-monger?
 
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MorkandMindy

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Yes bhsmte and I wish your message had been the big one in the main-stream media because it just so accurate and so obviously true.


Instead the main-stream media published endless nonsense to avoid actually saying anything useful or true.

My opinion of the MSM didn't come from DT, but was formed back in 1973 when the experiences of someone I knew well, which I independently verified, showed the MSM just writes whatever it wants to completely ignoring reality.

And I've lived outside the US many years and know that no one outside the US pays any attention to the US media, each country produces it's own 'advertising'.
 
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bhsmte

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Well, the biggest joke I heard the night of the election, was the shill Van Jones from CNN claiming; the election results was; "white lash against Obama". Clearly, he had a preset ideological position, that didn't jive with the objective evidence and he was sticking to it.

In reality, the election results were; minority lash against Clinton, not white lash against Obama, he wasn't running in the race.
 
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MorkandMindy

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and from the first couple of weeks after the election the Washington Consensus runs the show anyway, so it is mainly the words that are different.


Yes, that is what I expected to happen. I suspected that Donald would only be able to hold off war for 3 months compared with Hillary who would jump straight in, so it wouldn't make much difference in the end.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Yes, someone actually looked at county votes and found counties that had voted for 'the black man' Obama, twice, yes, twice, had voted against Clinton.

As you said it wasn't about race, or I would add, gender. Clinton was doing well until she started saying really offensive things, Donald also said stupid and offensive things but they weren't as deeply offensive as the ones Clinton accidentally let out. It wasn't gender, I don't think her fall from grace was due to a sex change mid election.
 
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Always in His Presence

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The current Republican President was quite bellicose as a candidate.

Bellicose = demonstrating aggression and willingness to fight. And his opponent was not?

He threatened to send 30,000 soldiers to fight in Iraq and Syria.

He also said that countries in the surrounding area should step up and take action against Syria. Remember all the flack he got in the press by saying Russia should take care of it?

And so far, he's sent a giant bomb.

Uh.... the MOAB was dropped on Afghanistan, not Iraq nor Syria.

Regarding the Russians, he's attacked an ally of theirs with Tomahawk missiles.

So?

And he's responding belligerently to North Korea.

As Opposed the the North Koreans who are developing Nuclear weapons and ICBM's despite numerous sanctions and UN Resolutions. So is China, and South Korea and Japan -

Not that all of these aren't bad dudes.

Really? Which of these are good dudes?

But he's putting us in the same go-it-alone, policeman-of-the-world role that's gotten us in deep trouble, and even deeper debt. Is he the mother of the all bombast--mostly talk with a few slaps on the wrist? Or is he a genuine war-monger?

Neither - he is acting on already established resolutions and helping a growing coalition of nations in preventing a maniac from getting the ability to drop a nuclear bomb on California - something the maniac has been speaking.
 
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jayem

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Bellicose = demonstrating aggression and willingness to fight. And his opponent was not?

Then we agree. DJT is just as war-like as Hillary.

Uh.... the MOAB was dropped on Afghanistan, not Iraq nor Syria.

His threat of a ground troop surge in Irag and Syria was to target Isis. Which was also the MOAB target. My point is about his willingness to escalate hostilities. Geography doesn't matter.

Really? Which of these are good dudes?

None are good. They're all bad dudes. Which is what I posted, but I phrased it as a double negative. I'm sorry you misread it.
 
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MorkandMindy

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I don't think so. HC would have jumped straight in because she is part of the Establishment.

DT has delayed a bit and is going slow on war-making but he is going to have to do what the Establishment says because it is a tradition to start a couple of wars per Presidential term and I don't think he can break that.

A politician at least as capable, Obama, despite his plans to fix pretty well everything, the war situation at the end of Obama's terms was as bad as at the start, and so were most things. The Establishment is in control.

The wars will ruin Donalds plans of economic recovery, so it will go like Obama's terms, great ideas then a month or so later, totally dead in the water.
 
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