Another "the tragic results of thread"

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

Trifecta: look at the most common theme against gays-they are sinning thus will go to hell and some churches wont perform burial ceremonies for gays who did not repent. Iam still looking for that bible where Jesus spoke about gays and where it states homosexuality deserves a special category from the sins of wealth, greed, lying, gluttony, etc.

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

RealDealNeverstop said:
Trifecta: look at the most common theme against gays-they are sinning thus will go to hell and some churches wont perform burial ceremonies for gays who did not repent. Iam still looking for that bible where Jesus spoke about gays and where it states homosexuality deserves a special category from the sins of wealth, greed, lying, gluttony, etc.

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

Agree with Elsan about Hell. To me, it is any place that is not in one hundred percent communion with God and as such, earth is one of hell's locations.

KarateCowboy · Mar 7, 2008

RealDealNeverstop said:
Agree with Elsan about Hell. To me, it is any place that is not in one hundred percent communion with God and as such, earth is one of hell's locations.

Jesus describes Hell as a physical place full of fire.

KarateCowboy · Mar 7, 2008

RealDealNeverstop said:
That's really bad theology. We are ALL born into sin, meaning, everyone is a sinner and as such needs Salvation to avoid hell. There is even a passage clarifying this by saying 'ALL have sinned and fallen short.'

Newborn babes are not capable of sin and thus are innocent. The idea that they have the guilt of 'Original Sin' is false because the prophet Ezekiel explicitly states that God does not place the guilt of the father on the son.

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

KarateCowboy said:
Jesus describes Hell as a physical place full of fire.

Jesus was a Jew. According to Jewish teachings, hell is completely not physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds.

If you look at the original texts rather than bad English translations you'll see he was speaking of Gehenna. Gehenna is not Hell, but rather a sort of pergatory where one is judged based on his or her life's deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one's own shortcomings and negative actions during one's life.

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

Yeah, Jesus spoke literally about hell and metaphorically about helping those in need. When we die our bodies go in the ground and our souls, which are non-physical entities move on. So, how can a non physical being such as our souls experience a physical place? Do we get new physical bodies? If so, i would like to request a brad pitt prototype please.

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

What part of being 'born into sin' is a mystery? Yes, newborns are sinners and Paul even addressed this issue. Is Ezekiel in the OT or NT?

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

Elsan, have you read Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion?

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

old...

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

Elsan, have you read Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion?

nopers... why?

(for some reason my quote won't work)

KarateCowboy · Mar 7, 2008

Luke 16, Young's Literal Translation:
19`And -- a certain man was rich, and was clothed in purple and fine linen, making merry sumptuously every day, 20and there was a certain poor man, by name Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores,
21and desiring to be filled from the crumbs that are falling from the table of the rich man; yea, also the dogs, coming, were licking his sores.
22`And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham -- and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,
24and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.

Flames, trying to cool off, heat, desiring water. Not a feeling of sadness, or any of that new age feel good nonsense. You can trust Jesus on this matter. I think He is reliable.

Soul Searcher · Mar 7, 2008

You do know that is a parable and should not be taken literally, right?

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

From what you've said it's a book you may greatly appreciate. He was a Catholic monk turned renegade to buddhism then back to non denom Christianity. He does a great job explaining certain tenets of Christ's teachings from a different perspective.

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

KarateCowboy said:
Luke 16, Young's Literal Translation:
19`And -- a certain man was rich, and was clothed in purple and fine linen, making merry sumptuously every day, 20and there was a certain poor man, by name Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores,
21and desiring to be filled from the crumbs that are falling from the table of the rich man; yea, also the dogs, coming, were licking his sores.
22`And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham -- and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,
24and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.

Flames, trying to cool off, heat, desiring water. Not a feeling of sadness, or any of that new age feel good nonsense. You can trust Jesus on this matter. I think He is reliable.

He very often speaks in metaphores. Taking everything he says literally would be foolish.

Meshavrischika · Mar 7, 2008

RealDealNeverstop said:
From what you've said it's a book you may greatly appreciate. He was a Catholic monk turned renegade to buddhism then back to non denom Christianity. He does a great job explaining certain tenets of Christ's teachings from a different perspective.

returning the recommendation:

Who told you that you were naked. John Jacob Raub

Though I'm not much on religious literature I may look your book up.

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

#32-I do trust Jesus on the matter. That is exactly why iam not taking some random poster's word over his. But, it was duly noted the question about physical bodies was not addressed. One more question, since lazarus and the rich man's bodies were buried in the ground, how did their physical bodies interact with abraham? Are there undiscovered tunnels in the earth? Did they take a flight on expedia?

KarateCowboy · Mar 7, 2008

ElsanRandiMom said:
He very often speaks in metaphores. Taking everything he says literally would be foolish.

OK well then, it's your baby.
If this is a metaphor, then do explain: what is Lazarus' finger a metaphor for?

KarateCowboy · Mar 7, 2008

RealDealNeverstop · Mar 7, 2008

I will look that up and thanks. Marion's book really isnt of the typical religious nature. It's more of a thesis on our existence and what happens when our bodies die. Ie-we judge ourselves instead of God judging us because we are all a part of God thus we know from our own minds what we are guilty of.

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