Another Problem with SDA Basic Belief 27: Earth Given to Satan’s Angels

[Dale]

SDA founder Ellen White taught that after the Second Coming, the earth would be given to Satan and the fallen angels during the Millennium. The saints, the righteous, would be raptured or taken to heaven and all others would be slain by Jesus the as Judge of the World. Then Jesus would go back to heaven and reign there during the Millennium, then return again for the Final Judgment. Numerous objections have been raised to this scenario. There is no Third Coming in scripture.

Here is another reason to think she has the wrong idea. White taught that angels, demons and mortals all have physical bodies, not souls. This is related the SDA doctrine of Soul Sleep, that after death, a person is dead as a doornail until resurrection. That’s because people, like angels and demons, have bodies, not souls. At the Final Judgment, demons and the unsaved would be bodily destroyed by fire. Since they have bodies, not souls, ordinary fire can destroy them.

None of this makes any sense to me. Ellen White and the Adventists are creationists. Adam and Eve lost physical immortality when they left the Garden of Eden. They no longer had access to the Tree of Life. Yet demons are supposed to have immortal physical bodies. Why didn’t they lose their immortality when they fell from heaven and exited God’s grace? It seems to me that they would.

I would assume that there are male and female demons, just as there must be male and female angels. What would it mean if Jesus takes the righteous to heaven, slays the wicked and leaves the earth to Satan’s angels for a thousand years during the Millennium? Male and female demons, with immortal physical bodies, would be free to have a thousand year sex orgy.

There is no way this can be construed as a punishment. Adventists have tried to tell us that Satan, and presumably the demons that follow him, would be “bound” to the earth, which is supposed to be confinement, a punishment. What does “bound” usually mean? A man who is bound, tied with ropes, or shackled with chains, cannot eat fine food, take a walk and enjoy the scenery, or chase wild women. According to Ellen White, it looks like Satan and all the demons with him would be free to have all the pleasures they want, including sexual immorality, during this time, the Millennium.

This is ridiculous. God will not reward demons by giving them a thousand years of fun before they are destroyed. The only promise the Bible makes to Satan is that he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. The same goes for those who follow him. The more you think about it, the more foolish the SDA end times scenario becomes.

My previous thread on this subject was devoted to examining the scriptures cited by SDA for their inexplicable conclusions on this subject.


SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

 

[Dale]

I’ve been surprised to see Adventists talking about a Rapture of the saints recently. Did the SDA church teach this, traditionally?

I did a search for “rapture” in Ellen White’s definitive four volume work, Conflict of the Ages. The word is used a number of times but it always refers to an emotion, not an event.

What she does say is this:

“Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants.”

This appears in The Great Controversy, Chapter 41: Desolation of the Earth. She doesn’t quote any New Testament scripture to support this conclusion. The City of God obviously means New Jerusalem, which isn’t mentioned in the Old Testament. She says that God’s people, the saved, will be taken to New Jerusalem, still in heaven, at the Second Coming. Since she doesn’t quote, or cite, any New Testament verses, there is no scriptural support for any of her conclusions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SDA founder Ellen White taught that after the Second Coming, the earth would be given to Satan and the fallen angels during the Millennium. The saints, the righteous, would be raptured or taken to heaven and all others would be slain by Jesus the as Judge of the World. Then Jesus would go back to heaven and reign there during the Millennium, then return again for the Final Judgment. Numerous objections have been raised to this scenario. There is no Third Coming in scripture.

Here is another reason to think she has the wrong idea. White taught that angels, demons and mortals all have physical bodies, not souls. This is related the SDA doctrine of Soul Sleep, that after death, a person is dead as a doornail until resurrection. That’s because people, like angels and demons, have bodies, not souls. At the Final Judgment, demons and the unsaved would be bodily destroyed by fire. Since they have bodies, not souls, ordinary fire can destroy them.

None of this makes any sense to me. Ellen White and the Adventists are creationists. Adam and Eve lost physical immortality when they left the Garden of Eden. They no longer had access to the Tree of Life. Yet demons are supposed to have immortal physical bodies. Why didn’t they lose their immortality when they fell from heaven and exited God’s grace? It seems to me that they would.

I would assume that there are male and female demons, just as there must be male and female angels. What would it mean if Jesus takes the righteous to heaven, slays the wicked and leaves the earth to Satan’s angels for a thousand years during the Millennium? Male and female demons, with immortal physical bodies, would be free to have a thousand year sex orgy.

There is no way this can be construed as a punishment. Adventists have tried to tell us that Satan, and presumably the demons that follow him, would be “bound” to the earth, which is supposed to be confinement, a punishment. What does “bound” usually mean? A man who is bound, tied with ropes, or shackled with chains, cannot eat fine food, take a walk and enjoy the scenery, or chase wild women. According to Ellen White, it looks like Satan and all the demons with him would be free to have all the pleasures they want, including sexual immorality, during this time, the Millennium.

This is ridiculous. God will not reward demons by giving them a thousand years of fun before they are destroyed. The only promise the Bible makes to Satan is that he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. The same goes for those who follow him. The more you think about it, the more foolish the SDA end times scenario becomes.

My previous thread on this subject was devoted to examining the scriptures cited by SDA for their inexplicable conclusions on this subject.


SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

Well lets see what scripture says…


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The saints reign with Christ for the millennium, those who are in Christ and are saved.

The rest of the dead who are not saved did not live again until the thousand years were finished Revelation 20:5

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28-29)

Only those in Christ will be saved, those who are living and not saved at the time of Christ Second Coming will all perish.

With the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked” (Isaiah 11:4).
“When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8).
“Let the wicked perish at the presence of God” (Psalm 68:2).
“The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5)

Satan and his angels at this time will be bound on the earth with no one to tempt.

“I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit ... till the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:1–3).

Bottomless pit means abyss. The earth will be void and desolate at this time. Jeremiah 4:23,25, 28

Isaiah 24:22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.

After the 1000 years of peace for the saints, Jesus will come again for the wicked
To be judged and destroyed along with satan and His angles and there will be sin no more.

“Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into ... the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 20:9, 10; 21:8).
“ ‘The wicked ... shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3).

I would assume that there are male and female demons, just as there must be male and female angels. What would it mean if Jesus takes the righteous to heaven, slays the wicked and leaves the earth to Satan’s angels for a thousand years during the Millennium? Male and female demons, with immortal physical bodies, would be free to have a thousand year sex orgy.

This statement cannot be proved in scripture, maybe this is what you believe, but its not what the SDA church believes or anything you can backup through scripture. Angels can’t procreate so there would be no purpose God would give them to have sex, nor is this stated anywhere in scripture. There is also no mention of any female angels in scriptures, I don’t think its wise to assume anything that is not written.

This subject was already addressed in the previous thread you started but hope this helps. God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I’ve been surprised to see Adventists talking about a Rapture of the saints recently. Did the SDA church teach this, traditionally?

I did a search for “rapture” in Ellen White’s definitive four volume work, Conflict of the Ages. The word is used a number of times but it always refers to an emotion, not an event.

What she does say is this:

“Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants.”

This appears in The Great Controversy, Chapter 41: Desolation of the Earth. She doesn’t quote any New Testament scripture to support this conclusion. The City of God obviously means New Jerusalem, which isn’t mentioned in the Old Testament. She says that God’s people, the saved, will be taken to New Jerusalem, still in heaven, at the Second Coming. Since she doesn’t quote, or cite, any New Testament verses, there is no scriptural support for any of her conclusions.

Rapture simply means caught up

The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur meaning "we are caught up"


When Jesus comes the saints will be caught up in the air to meet Jesus according to scripture.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

I’ve been surprised to see Adventists talking about a Rapture of the saints recently.

because that is what we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24:29-31 (affirms John 14:1-3)

29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[BobRyan]

What she does say is this:

“Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants.”

because that is what we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and Matt 24:29-31 (affirms John 14:1-3) taken to "my Father's house"
Matt 24
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

And in Rev 19 where "the rest are killed"
and in 2 Thess 1 where all the unbelievers are slain at Christ's appearing
and in Jer 4 where the earth is desolate with no humans.

23 I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void;
And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking,
And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, (NASB 1995), "no human" NASB, "no people" NIV
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were pulled down
Before the Lord, before His fierce anger.

27 For thus says the Lord,
“The whole land shall be a desolation,
Yet I will not execute a complete destruction.
28 “For this the earth shall mourn
And the heavens above be dark,

, there is no scriptural support for any of her conclusions.

you are welcomed to your opinion, you have free will

 

[BobRyan]

White taught that angels, demons and mortals all have physical bodies

As does scripture

, not souls.

not true.

This is related the SDA doctrine of Soul Sleep,

For the soul to sleep it must be true that
1. It exists
2. Humans have one.
3. It must survive the first death "kill the body but not the soul" Matt 10:28

Ellen White agreed that humans "have a soul" and in other instances she says humans "are souls"

"Our own future well-being, and also the salvation of other souls, depends upon the course which we now pursue." GC88 601.1

"Brother Prismall, you have a soul to save, or a soul to lose, just as though you were the only person in existence. The question of the salvation of your soul is a matter between you and your God. Turn away from the short-comings of your brethren and sisters. You have an individual case pending in the courts of heaven. Have (57) you secured the Advocate to plead for you? EA 286.1

"If we have shunned the truth to save our lives, then we shall lose eternal life. We have a soul to save or to lose. 4LtMs, Ms 44, 1886, par. 18

"There is danger of your slighting him too long. Your time is taken up with the vanities of the world, and you seldom retain thoughts that you have a soul to save or lose. Have you forgotten that there is one who was wounded for your transgressions and bruised for your iniquities? One who is now pleading with his Father, YI January 1, 1854, par. 4

"Let your words be pure and sincere; educate the thoughts to dwell upon heavenly themes; educate the tongue to avoid vain trifling, jesting, and joking; and seek to be clean and holy in all manner of conversation, realizing that you are fitting up for the future, immortal life. You have a soul to save or to lose, YI August 3, 1893, par. 1

"Christ taught the people to ask, “What saith the word of the Lord?” I have a soul to save. I cannot afford to be mystified when my eternal well-being is at stake. Because my minister refuses to examine the Scriptures with a heart free from prejudice and stubbornness, RH May 28, 1901, Art. A, par. 4

"We all have our individuality; this cannot be submerged in another. You have a soul to save or to lose. The Lord will be to you a present help in every time of trouble. He would have you stand at your post of duty, relying wholly upon Him who has loved us and died for us. DG 183.4

 

[BobRyan]

I would assume that there are male and female demons,

you have free will you can speculate as you wish... I choose scripture and Christ's words in Matt 22 instead.

 

[concretecamper]

SDA founder Ellen White taught that after the Second Coming, the earth would be given to Satan and the fallen angels during the Millennium. The saints, the righteous, would be raptured or taken to heaven and all others would be slain by Jesus the as Judge of the World. Then Jesus would go back to heaven and reign there during the Millennium, then return again for the Final Judgment. Numerous objections have been raised to this scenario. There is no Third Coming in scripture.

Here is another reason to think she has the wrong idea. White taught that angels, demons and mortals all have physical bodies, not souls. This is related the SDA doctrine of Soul Sleep, that after death, a person is dead as a doornail until resurrection. That’s because people, like angels and demons, have bodies, not souls. At the Final Judgment, demons and the unsaved would be bodily destroyed by fire. Since they have bodies, not souls, ordinary fire can destroy them.

None of this makes any sense to me. Ellen White and the Adventists are creationists. Adam and Eve lost physical immortality when they left the Garden of Eden. They no longer had access to the Tree of Life. Yet demons are supposed to have immortal physical bodies. Why didn’t they lose their immortality when they fell from heaven and exited God’s grace? It seems to me that they would.

I would assume that there are male and female demons, just as there must be male and female angels. What would it mean if Jesus takes the righteous to heaven, slays the wicked and leaves the earth to Satan’s angels for a thousand years during the Millennium? Male and female demons, with immortal physical bodies, would be free to have a thousand year sex orgy.

There is no way this can be construed as a punishment. Adventists have tried to tell us that Satan, and presumably the demons that follow him, would be “bound” to the earth, which is supposed to be confinement, a punishment. What does “bound” usually mean? A man who is bound, tied with ropes, or shackled with chains, cannot eat fine food, take a walk and enjoy the scenery, or chase wild women. According to Ellen White, it looks like Satan and all the demons with him would be free to have all the pleasures they want, including sexual immorality, during this time, the Millennium.

This is ridiculous. God will not reward demons by giving them a thousand years of fun before they are destroyed. The only promise the Bible makes to Satan is that he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. The same goes for those who follow him. The more you think about it, the more foolish the SDA end times scenario becomes.

My previous thread on this subject was devoted to examining the scriptures cited by SDA for their inexplicable conclusions on this subject.


SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

I get a kick at posts like these, especially becasue of the title "Another problem with....."

SDAs have the same right you have to interpret scripture the way they want to. Geez

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I get a kick at posts like these, especially becasue of the title "Another problem with....."

SDAs have the same right you have to interpret scripture the way they want to. Geez

Amen! Let’s us all have the religious freedom to believe what we want, regardless if one agrees or not.

 

[Dale]

Well lets see what scripture says…


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The saints reign with Christ for the millennium, those who are in Christ and are saved.

The rest of the dead who are not saved did not live again until the thousand years were finished Revelation 20:5

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28-29)

Only those in Christ will be saved, those who are living and not saved at the time of Christ Second Coming will all perish.

With the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked” (Isaiah 11:4).
“When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8).
“Let the wicked perish at the presence of God” (Psalm 68:2).
“The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5)

Satan and his angels at this time will be bound on the earth with no one to tempt.

“I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit ... till the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:1–3).

Bottomless pit means abyss. The earth will be void and desolate at this time. Jeremiah 4:23,25, 28

Isaiah 24:22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.

After the 1000 years of peace for the saints, Jesus will come again for the wicked
To be judged and destroyed along with satan and His angles and there will be sin no more.

“Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into ... the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 20:9, 10; 21:8).
“ ‘The wicked ... shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3).


This statement cannot be proved in scripture, maybe this is what you believe, but its not what the SDA church believes or anything you can backup through scripture. Angels can’t procreate so there would be no purpose God would give them to have sex, nor is this stated anywhere in scripture. There is also no mention of any female angels in scriptures, I don’t think its wise to assume anything that is not written.

This subject was already addressed in the previous thread you started but hope this helps. God bless

SB: “Angels can’t procreate so there would be no purpose God would give them to have sex, nor is this stated anywhere in scripture. There is also no mention of any female angels in scriptures, I don’t think its wise to assume anything that is not written.”


You’re jumping to conclusions. You say that there are no female angels in scripture, which appears to be true. The Bible doesn’t tell us that angels are genderless, either. No angel is ever described as a genderless thing. It makes no sense to have male angels without female angels. On whether angels can procreate, I have no desire to push the idea, but the Bible doesn’t say. You assume that gender has no purpose except procreation, but that’s just your assumption.

Ellen White believed that the Garden of Eden was a physical reality, and that Satan had a physical body when he tempted Eve in the Garden. At the judgment, Satan is destroyed when his physical body is destroyed. To EW, that’s all there is to it. The conclusions I reached from her assumptions are unavoidable.

The angels mentioned in the Bible are clearly seen to be male. This includes Gabriel at the Annunciation.

Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the
right side of the altar of incense.
When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped
with fear.
Luke 1:11-12 NIV

Zechariah asked the angel, “How can I be sure of this? I am
an old man and my wife is well on in years.”
The angel answered, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of
God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this
good news.
Luke 1:18-19 NIV

Several of the angels in Revelation are said to be male.

Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having
the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the
four angels who had been given power to harm the land and
the sea …
Revelation 7:2 NIV

Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven.
He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his
face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.
Revelation 10:1 NIV

 

[BobRyan]

SB: “Angels can’t procreate so there would be no purpose God would give them to have sex, nor is this stated anywhere in scripture. There is also no mention of any female angels in scriptures, I don’t think its wise to assume anything that is not written.”

Yeah - SB makes a good point - Jesus said in Matt 22 that angels are not created with the function of forming family relationships - not even within their own group. I agree with sticking with scripture.

The angels mentioned in the Bible are clearly seen to be male.

So also by that logic is God himself. But he is not married -- he does not procreate - rather He creates.

Angels do neither one.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I’ve been surprised to see Adventists talking about a Rapture of the saints recently. Did the SDA church teach this, traditionally?

I did a search for “rapture” in Ellen White’s definitive four volume work, Conflict of the Ages. The word is used a number of times but it always refers to an emotion, not an event.

What she does say is this:

“Christ takes His people to the City of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants.”

This appears in The Great Controversy, Chapter 41: Desolation of the Earth. She doesn’t quote any New Testament scripture to support this conclusion. The City of God obviously means New Jerusalem, which isn’t mentioned in the Old Testament. She says that God’s people, the saved, will be taken to New Jerusalem, still in heaven, at the Second Coming. Since she doesn’t quote, or cite, any New Testament verses, there is no scriptural support for any of her conclusions.

Every SDA I ever met was against the rapture theory.

"The Millennium and the End of Sin Z27 The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:18, 19; Mal. 4:1; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Rev. 20; 21:1-5.)"
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

 

[Daniel Marsh]

start at Another Problem with SDA Basic Belief 27: Earth Given to Satan’s Angels

 

[Dale]

Every SDA I ever met was against the rapture theory.

"The Millennium and the End of Sin Z27 The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:18, 19; Mal. 4:1; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Rev. 20; 21:1-5.)"
https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

Daniel Marsh: "Every SDA I ever met was against the rapture theory."

This has been my experience as well. The notion of a rapture, separate from the Second Coming, is a very recent idea and it was not a common belief in the US in the 19th century. It wasn't a common idea during Ellen White's lifetime, especially when she was young.

Paul criticized those who are "blown about by every wind of doctrine." That certainly fits the bill.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Daniel Marsh: "Every SDA I ever met was against the rapture theory."

This has been my experience as well. The notion of a rapture, separate from the Second Coming, is a very recent idea and it was not a common belief in the US in the 19th century. It wasn't a common idea during Ellen White's lifetime, especially when she was young.

Paul criticized those who are "blown about by every wind of doctrine." That certainly fits the bill.

I think you are confusing the definition of rapture “caught up in the air” to the unbiblical notion that rapture means “those saved suddenly disappear to be with Christ” while everyone else is still on earth and have conflated the two into something that is a mistruth again about the SDA church. Not sure if you keep doing this intentionally or not but I will leave that between you and God.

The SDA church very much believes in the biblical term of rapture and it’s not separated from the Second Coming as already stated.


The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur meaning "we are caught up"


When Jesus comes the saints will be caught up in the air to meet Jesus according to scripture.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Every SDA I ever met was against the rapture theory.

SDA'S are againt the Rapture because they don't realize that the Rapture and the Advent are the same thing. They are different terms that refer to the event where we go to heaven.

They have confused the 2nd coming which is the part where Christ rules the earth with the Advent/Rapture where the church goes to heaven. It used to be universally understood, before the 1800's that the 2nd coming was the part where Christ ruled the world. the sign of this, was the Sabbath day. It was not until William Miller & the Adventist came along and confused the terms that it was changed to believe the 2nd coming was the part were we go to heaven. So it is no wonder the don't believe it because they were part the the Movement that Confused the terms.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SDA'S are againt the Rapture because they don't realize that the Rapture and the Advent are the same thing. They are the different terms that refer to the event where we go to heaven.

As a Seventh-day Adventist who believes in the 28 fundamental beliefs I am going to respectfully disagree with what you are claiming here.

Advent is the Second Coming of Jesus, Rapture means “being caught up” in the air to Jesus when He comes.

Not sure why all this misinformation about the SDA church, but this all gets sorted out soon enough.

God bless

 

[Adventist Dissident]

As a Seventh-day Adventist who believes in the 28 fundamental beliefs I am going to respectfully disagree with what you are claiming here.

Advent is the Second Coming of Jesus, Rapture means “being caught up” in the air to Jesus when He comes.

Not sure why all this misinformation about the SDA church, but this all gets sorted out soon enough.

God bless

As a person who Hold a degree in the SDA in theology, Attended multiple SDA colleges and Seminaries read over 40,000 pages on SDA theology and doctrine and who has attened the SDA church for over 50 years and was a pastor, youth pastor, evangelist, colporter, Missionary, & Dean of Boys, and lived in SDA college enviroment for over 20 years......

There is no misinformation in what I said.

What is precieved as misinformation, is lack of information, training, expriance and knowledge on the part of the reader.. you are not more qualified then I am to talk about the subject matter, my opinion holds greater weight then those who have no training and educatioin on the subject matter. Sorry that is how it works. people are not quallifed just because they wish themselves to be.



Here try educating yourself on the history of the Millerite movement , that way we can avoid unnecessary conflict and have a more effective conversation, growth in understanding can be achieved and better truth can be learned.
Adventism - Wikipedia

You might also try educating yourself on the history of the doctrinal erros of the Millerite/SDA errors
1. 1844 - failed prediction of Christ return
2. the multipul failed prediction between 1844 and 1853
3. the erroronus view of the of Christ entering the sanctuary in 1844, inviented by Hiram edson to explain why the millerite prediction failed
4. the last generation Theology which was invinted in 1852 whih was invented to explain why they should contiune as a group instead of give up and go back to the mainline churches.
5. the errouns view that -Ellen white is the Spirit of Prophecy - she made many prediction that failed and many endosement while in vision that were later shown to be false.
Including,
A. The prediction that there would be people alive that heard her prediction when Christ returned.
B. The endorsment of Joseph Bates, views on the coming of the Lord, which were wrong. James used this to grab power in Sabbatarian Advent Group.
C. The endorsement of doctrinal error of Righteousness by faith that had to be corrected in 1888.
D . The endosement of Uriah Smith's view on Daniel and the Revelation which are in error. He Husband had a view that is accurate and she voted him out because she need the polotical support of Uriah Smith.
these are just a few examples of the Millerite/ Adventist errors.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As a person who Hold a degree in the SDA in theology, Attended multiple SDA colleges and Seminaries read over 40,000 pages on SDA theology and doctrine and who has attened the SDA church for over 50 years and was a pastor, youth pastor, evangelist, colporter, Missionary, & Dean of Boys, and lived in SDA college enviroment for over 20 years......

There is no misinformation in what I said, That is lack of information and training on your part. you are not more qualified then I am to talk about the subject matter.

Here try educating yourself on the history of the Millerite movement , that way we can avoid unnecessary conflict and have a more effective conversation, growth in understanding can be achieved and better truth can be learned.
Adventism - Wikipedia

You might also try educating yourself on the history of the doctrinal erros of the Millerite/SDA errors
1. 1844 - failed prediction of Christ return
2. the multipul failed prediction between 1844 and 1853
3. the erroronus view of the of Christ entering the sanctuary in 1844, inviented by Hiram edson to explain why the millerite prediction failed
4. the last generation Theology which was invinted in 1852 whih was invented to explain why they should contiune as a group instead of give up and go back to the mainline churches.
5. the errouns view that -Ellen white is the Spirit of Prophecy - she made many prediction that failed and many endosement while in vision that were later shown to be false.
Including,
A. The prediction that there would be people alive that heard her prediction when Christ returned.
B. The endorsment of Joseph Bates, views on the coming of the Lord, which were wrong. James used this to grab power in Sabbatarian Advent Group.
C. The endorsement of doctrinal error of Righteousness by faith that had to be corrected in 1888.
D . The endosement of Uriah Smith's view on Daniel and the Revelation which are in error. He Husband had a view that is accurate and she voted him out because she need the polotical support of Uriah Smith.
these are just a few examples of the Millerite/ Adventist errors.

I think God looks at the heart and not what degree one holds. I have a family of masters and doctoral degrees as does the many members of the SDA church.

I am very educated on the history of the SDA church (weird you would assume otherwise) and maybe you are not aware but the Millerite movement was started by a Baptist minister, the second coming of Jesus predicted in 1844 was not predicted by the SDA church as it wasn’t even formed yet. Ellen White was just 17 years old in 1844 and was a Methodist at the time. After 1844 came and went a group of people including Ellen White started carefully studying the Bible and 22 years later the SDA church was formed in 1863. Hope this helps.