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RDouglas

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Sometimes I think I have an innate talent for starting discussions that make people want to punch me in the face.

Here's one that's a prime example.

When someone brings up the topic of homosexuality, I have a tendency to ask whether they're also willing to be accepting of pedophilia.

Take a look at the arguments generally used to justify homosexuality.

1) It's just an alternate lifestyle.

Technically, you could define any deviant behavior as "an alternate lifestyle" if you wanted to. Ah, but homosexuality is accepted while pedophilia never will be, right? Thirty or so years ago no one would have bought the idea that homosexuality would be accepted either.

2) It's genetic.

This is the most commonly used argument in defense of homosexuality. Truthfully, it's not proven by any stretch, but it's come to be accepted as "proven" in a lot of the public consciousness. If, however, we can accept that a predisposition to same sex relationships is inborn and that it should be accepted based on this notion, what if it's determined that pedophilia is also an inborn predisposition. Moral consistency demands that we accept this as valid also.

3) There's precedent.

Homosexuality has been part of the culture for a while now, and people have suffered to obtain the rights they now have, so the story goes. If you think there aren't such "pioneers" for pedophilia, think again. And yes, they follow a lot of the same tracks that gay rights advocates did.

4) It's two consenting adults

This is the most common argument against the connection between these ideas, but take a look at the culture. You have younger and younger kids having sex with each other, so people could argue that it would be better to let a responsible adult be involved (try to grip the irony on that one). It can also be argued that while molestation or actual sexual contact might be bad, "passive" pedophilia (i.e. someone who "just looks") is largely harmless, a "victimless crime" like so many other things are these days.

There are plenty of parallels between the two options here. Enough that in the end, I think moral consistency demands that you either accept both or reject both. Naturally, I reject both, but there are many who want to accept one and not the other.

As you might imagine, they tend to be annoyed when I present this argument.
 

PinkTulip

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Sometimes I think I have an innate talent for starting discussions that make people want to punch me in the face.

Here's one that's a prime example.

When someone brings up the topic of homosexuality, I have a tendency to ask whether they're also willing to be accepting of pedophilia.

Take a look at the arguments generally used to justify homosexuality.

1) It's just an alternate lifestyle.

Technically, you could define any deviant behavior as "an alternate lifestyle" if you wanted to. Ah, but homosexuality is accepted while pedophilia never will be, right? Thirty or so years ago no one would have bought the idea that homosexuality would be accepted either.

2) It's genetic.

This is the most commonly used argument in defense of homosexuality. Truthfully, it's not proven by any stretch, but it's come to be accepted as "proven" in a lot of the public consciousness. If, however, we can accept that a predisposition to same sex relationships is inborn and that it should be accepted based on this notion, what if it's determined that pedophilia is also an inborn predisposition. Moral consistency demands that we accept this as valid also.

3) There's precedent.

Homosexuality has been part of the culture for a while now, and people have suffered to obtain the rights they now have, so the story goes. If you think there aren't such "pioneers" for pedophilia, think again. And yes, they follow a lot of the same tracks that gay rights advocates did.

4) It's two consenting adults

This is the most common argument against the connection between these ideas, but take a look at the culture. You have younger and younger kids having sex with each other, so people could argue that it would be better to let a responsible adult be involved (try to grip the irony on that one). It can also be argued that while molestation or actual sexual contact might be bad, "passive" pedophilia (i.e. someone who "just looks") is largely harmless, a "victimless crime" like so many other things are these days.

There are plenty of parallels between the two options here. Enough that in the end, I think moral consistency demands that you either accept both or reject both. Naturally, I reject both, but there are many who want to accept one and not the other.

As you might imagine, they tend to be annoyed when I present this argument.


This is full_moon.

No doubt!!!

I've had several people want to punch me in the face for that... But it is the same demon I believe, teaching sexual immorality. You have exposed some of her lies.

Usually I like to ask people to tell me why it is wrong for a father and 21 year old daughter to have intercourse. Then I assume there will be no child. Then I assume both are single. Then I assume both want to....

Then someone calls it a perversion. So I ask them to define perversion. Once they define it the same definition applies to homosexuality etc etc. Most people refuse to define it for that reason. They "know" it's wrong without being able to say why.

But then we can justify all kinds of sexual sin by the arguments you gave. Consent doesn't make something right. Sexual sin damages inside the body, so not seeing "harm" on the outside is null. etc etc etc.

Cheers on the thinking. You recognize the taste of ... some word I can't say here:preach:
</IMG>
 
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Brieuse

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It's an insult to me to liken pedophilia to homosexuality. Firstly, it's not a homosexual only issue. Secondly I hate pedophiles with a passion (I know God says I shouldn't hate), my brother was abused as a child and it messed him up. Thirdly, those people are sick and should be in jail.
 
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inyourarmsalways

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I have a tendency to ask whether they're also willing to be accepting of pedophilia.
Pedophilia is not a consenting sexual relationship. Have a real example we can use here? :wave:



1) It's just an alternate lifestyle.

Technically, you could define any deviant behavior as "an alternate lifestyle" if you wanted to. Ah, but homosexuality is accepted while pedophilia never will be, right? Thirty or so years ago no one would have bought the idea that homosexuality would be accepted either.

Sexual relations with children and this is the poorest argument you can get. 2 adults and an adult with a minor children isn't the same.

Technically, you can use the same argument against heterosexuals, an adult male with a girl child.

2) It's genetic.

This is the most commonly used argument in defense of homosexuality. Truthfully, it's not proven by any stretch, but it's come to be accepted as "proven" in a lot of the public consciousness. If, however, we can accept that a predisposition to same sex relationships is inborn and that it should be accepted based on this notion, what if it's determined that pedophilia is also an inborn predisposition. Moral consistency demands that we accept this as valid also.

You haven't disproved it by any stretch. : )

3) There's precedent.

Homosexuality has been part of the culture for a while now, and people have suffered to obtain the rights they now have, so the story goes. If you think there aren't such "pioneers" for pedophilia, think again. And yes, they follow a lot of the same tracks that gay rights advocates did.

uhm, that isn't even the same. Children cannot consent. Again, using a terrible example to make your point, which is weak at best.

4) It's two consenting adults

This is the most common argument against the connection between these ideas, but take a look at the culture. You have younger and younger kids having sex with each other, so people could argue that it would be better to let a responsible adult be involved (try to grip the irony on that one). It can also be argued that while molestation or actual sexual contact might be bad, "passive" pedophilia (i.e. someone who "just looks") is largely harmless, a "victimless crime" like so many other things are these days.
Again, using a non consenting argument to state your point.


There are plenty of parallels between the two options here. Enough that in the end, I think moral consistency demands that you either accept both or reject both. Naturally, I reject both, but there are many who want to accept one and not the other.

As you might imagine, they tend to be annoyed when I present this argument.


They are not even remotely the same.

I'm glad you are not my lawyer!
 
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DanielRB

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Peace, RDouglas :wave:

Sometimes I think I have an innate talent for starting discussions that make people want to punch me in the face.

Here's one that's a prime example.

When someone brings up the topic of homosexuality, I have a tendency to ask whether they're also willing to be accepting of pedophilia.

Take a look at the arguments generally used to justify homosexuality.

1) It's just an alternate lifestyle.

Technically, you could define any deviant behavior as "an alternate lifestyle" if you wanted to. Ah, but homosexuality is accepted while pedophilia never will be, right? Thirty or so years ago no one would have bought the idea that homosexuality would be accepted either.

2) It's genetic.

This is the most commonly used argument in defense of homosexuality. Truthfully, it's not proven by any stretch, but it's come to be accepted as "proven" in a lot of the public consciousness. If, however, we can accept that a predisposition to same sex relationships is inborn and that it should be accepted based on this notion, what if it's determined that pedophilia is also an inborn predisposition. Moral consistency demands that we accept this as valid also.

3) There's precedent.

Homosexuality has been part of the culture for a while now, and people have suffered to obtain the rights they now have, so the story goes. If you think there aren't such "pioneers" for pedophilia, think again. And yes, they follow a lot of the same tracks that gay rights advocates did.

4) It's two consenting adults

This is the most common argument against the connection between these ideas, but take a look at the culture. You have younger and younger kids having sex with each other, so people could argue that it would be better to let a responsible adult be involved (try to grip the irony on that one). It can also be argued that while molestation or actual sexual contact might be bad, "passive" pedophilia (i.e. someone who "just looks") is largely harmless, a "victimless crime" like so many other things are these days.

There are plenty of parallels between the two options here. Enough that in the end, I think moral consistency demands that you either accept both or reject both. Naturally, I reject both, but there are many who want to accept one and not the other.

As you might imagine, they tend to be annoyed when I present this argument.

I agree with all but your fourth point. If the debate is about consensual sex, I don't think pedophilia can apply. Of course, the definition of "adult" is variable with time and culture.

And don't forget cultures like ancient Sparta, where it was an acceptable practice for young boys to be taken by an older male. In our culture, even most homosexuals are repelled by that; however, your third pont addresses this. Just because pedophilia is condemned by our current society doesn't mean that it's not "natural" in the sense that homosexuality is considered "natural" by many in today's society.

In Christ,

Daniel
 
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PinkTulip

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Pedophilia is not a consenting sexual relationship. Have a real example we can use here? :wave:





Sexual relations with children and this is the poorest argument you can get. 2 adults and an adult with a minor children isn't the same.

Technically, you can use the same argument against heterosexuals, an adult male with a girl child.



You haven't disproved it by any stretch. : )



uhm, that isn't even the same. Children cannot consent. Again, using a terrible example to make your point, which is weak at best.


Again, using a non consenting argument to state your point.





They are not even remotely the same.

I'm glad you are not my lawyer!
In Canada, if a 40-year-old man talks a 14 year old girl into having sex with him he will not go to jail (as long as she feels the relationship is OK) . The age of consent is Canada is 14....So what exactly is a pedophile to you?
 
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inyourarmsalways

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In Canada, if a 40-year-old man talks a 14 year old girl into having sex with him he will not go to jail (as long as she feels the relationship is OK) . The age of consent is Canada is 14....So what exactly is a pedophile to you?
I don't see it as a valid comparison with this, is my only point.
 
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W

WalkingforHim

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I think it's a pretty stupid and insulting arguement. It's no different than me using the actions and words of muslim terrorists to condemn christianity. They're both religions, there are nuts in both of them, so why not use one to condemn the other.

Sure homosexuality and pedophilia and types of sex. Sure there's precedent. No different than heterosexuality. There's no proof pedophilia is genetic.

There is no moral consistency in equating what is tantamount to rape to a sexual orientation. It's hateful, it's bigoted, it's insulting, it's ignorant, and it gives God and good christians everywhere a bad name.
 
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PinkTulip

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I think it's a pretty stupid and insulting arguement. It's no different than me using the actions and words of muslim terrorists to condemn christianity. They're both religions, there are nuts in both of them, so why not use one to condemn the other.

Sure homosexuality and pedophilia and types of sex. Sure there's precedent. No different than heterosexuality. There's no proof pedophilia is genetic.

There is no moral consistency in equating what is tantamount to rape to a sexual orientation. It's hateful, it's bigoted, it's insulting, it's ignorant, and it gives God and good christians everywhere a bad name.
30 years ago you would have not thought that. It is only due to popular culture that homosexuality has become accepted. I lay bets (if I gambled) that in 20 years it will be OK for 40-year-old men to have sex with 12 year olds. How do you know pedophilia is not biological? I am sure that when it becomes sexier that scientists will try and find some link between biology and the "illness". What I find insulting is that Christians like to pick and choose their sin and how to live...what we are witnessing in this century is Christianity a la carte or a salad bar where one picks what they like and don't like to please one's self. I think, my friend, some Christians are making a mockery of our Lord and Scripture. If I am Christian, I do not choose what I like to do based on my "feelings", what "society" likes, or what I think is right or wrong. At the end of the day, I choose God and the Bible.
 
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WalkingforHim

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30 years ago you would have not thought that.

30 years ago, I probably would have been racist too. What's your point?

It is only due to popular culture that homosexuality has become accepted. I lay bets (if I gambled) that in 20 years it will be OK for 40-year-old men to have sex with 12 year olds. How do you know pedophilia is not biological? I am sure that when it becomes sexier that scientists will try and find some link between biology and the "illness". What I find insulting is that Christians like to pick and choose their sin and how to live...what we are witnessing in this century is Christianity a la carte or a salad bar where one picks what they like and don't like to please one's self. I think, my friend, some Christians are making a mockery of our Lord and Scripture. If I am Christian, I do not choose what I like to do based on my "feelings", what "society" likes, or what I think is right or wrong. At the end of the day, I choose God and the Bible.

Get off your high horse. Just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible and what you think, doesn't make me any of those things.
 
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PinkTulip

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30 years ago, I probably would have been racist too. What's your point?



Get off your high horse. Just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible and what you think, doesn't make me any of those things.
I was not flaming you, so I don't think you should insult me.
 
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UberLutheran

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This is full_moon.

No doubt!!!

I've had several people want to punch me in the face for that... But it is the same demon I believe, teaching sexual immorality. You have exposed some of her lies.

Usually I like to ask people to tell me why it is wrong for a father and 21 year old daughter to have intercourse. Then I assume there will be no child. Then I assume both are single. Then I assume both want to....

Then someone calls it a perversion. So I ask them to define perversion. Once they define it the same definition applies to homosexuality etc etc. Most people refuse to define it for that reason. They "know" it's wrong without being able to say why.

But then we can justify all kinds of sexual sin by the arguments you gave. Consent doesn't make something right. Sexual sin damages inside the body, so not seeing "harm" on the outside is null. etc etc etc.

Cheers on the thinking. You recognize the taste of ... some word I can't say here:preach:
</IMG>

Well, I guess that explains why you've been trying so hard in several posts to get me to "confess". :-|

Now, my question to you: for whose benefit am I "confessing"?
 
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PinkTulip

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Well, I guess that explains why you've been trying so hard in several posts to get me to "confess". :-|

Now, my question to you: for whose benefit am I "confessing"?
I actually didn't write that - my hubby did :) It is for your benefit, not mine. I am sure you have read the Augsburg Confession and Luther's Small Catechism. You seem like a smart cookie, so I am sure you have :) Hopefully every Sunday you confess before God and the church, correct?

Why does my font look so odd?
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Sometimes I think I have an innate talent for starting discussions that make people want to punch me in the face.

Here's one that's a prime example.

When someone brings up the topic of homosexuality, I have a tendency to ask whether they're also willing to be accepting of pedophilia.

Take a look at the arguments generally used to justify homosexuality.

1) It's just an alternate lifestyle.

Technically, you could define any deviant behavior as "an alternate lifestyle" if you wanted to. Ah, but homosexuality is accepted while pedophilia never will be, right? Thirty or so years ago no one would have bought the idea that homosexuality would be accepted either.

2) It's genetic.

This is the most commonly used argument in defense of homosexuality. Truthfully, it's not proven by any stretch, but it's come to be accepted as "proven" in a lot of the public consciousness. If, however, we can accept that a predisposition to same sex relationships is inborn and that it should be accepted based on this notion, what if it's determined that pedophilia is also an inborn predisposition. Moral consistency demands that we accept this as valid also.

3) There's precedent.

Homosexuality has been part of the culture for a while now, and people have suffered to obtain the rights they now have, so the story goes. If you think there aren't such "pioneers" for pedophilia, think again. And yes, they follow a lot of the same tracks that gay rights advocates did.

4) It's two consenting adults

This is the most common argument against the connection between these ideas, but take a look at the culture. You have younger and younger kids having sex with each other, so people could argue that it would be better to let a responsible adult be involved (try to grip the irony on that one). It can also be argued that while molestation or actual sexual contact might be bad, "passive" pedophilia (i.e. someone who "just looks") is largely harmless, a "victimless crime" like so many other things are these days.

There are plenty of parallels between the two options here. Enough that in the end, I think moral consistency demands that you either accept both or reject both. Naturally, I reject both, but there are many who want to accept one and not the other.

As you might imagine, they tend to be annoyed when I present this argument.

I do think that was a second shooter on that day in Dallas. How about you?
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Peace, RDouglas :wave:



I agree with all but your fourth point. If the debate is about consensual sex, I don't think pedophilia can apply. Of course, the definition of "adult" is variable with time and culture.

And don't forget cultures like ancient Sparta, where it was an acceptable practice for young boys to be taken by an older male. In our culture, even most homosexuals are repelled by that; however, your third pont addresses this. Just because pedophilia is condemned by our current society doesn't mean that it's not "natural" in the sense that homosexuality is considered "natural" by many in today's society.

In Christ,

Daniel

Dearest brother : I have not noticed any Spartans walking around the streets of Boston as of late. If there are any they me be movie extras. peace and Love
 
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