• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

Another feathered dinosaur discovered...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Yet another small theropod dinosaur with feathers has been discovered in China...

A New Giant Compsognathid Dinosaur with Long Filamentous Integuments from
Lower Cretaceous of Northeastern China JI Shu’an*, JI Qiang, LÜ Junchang
and YUAN Chongxi Institute of Geology, Chinese Academy of Geological
Sciences, Beijing 100037 Key Laboratory of Stratigraphy and Paleontology,
Chinese Academy of Geological Sciences, Beijing 100037 ACTA GEOLOGICA
SINICA Vol. 81 No. 1 pp. 8–15 2007-03-01 15:27:36

Abstract: A new compsognathid dinosaur, Sinocalliopteryx gigas gen. et
sp. nov., is erected based on a complete skeleton from the Early
Cretaceous Yixian Formation of western Liaoning, northeastern China. It
shares the features with Huaxiagnathus orientalis in having a manus as
long as the humerus plus radius, very large and subequally long manual
claws I and II, and reduced olecranon process on the ulna. But it differs
from Huaxiagnathus orientalis in having the much large size, a very long
maxillary process of premaxilla not extending the vertical level of the
maxillary antorbital fossa, and the proportionally longer ulna and so on.
Sinocalliopteryx gigas gen. et sp. nov. represents the largest species
among the known compsognathid dinosaurs, suggesting the tendency of the
body enlargement in compsognathids to some extent. The long filamentous
integuments are attached to the whole body of this compsognathid,
confirming that such integuments evolved firstly in the basal
coelurosaurs. This new giant compsognathid was a fierce carnivorous
theropod, as shown further by an incomplete dromaeosaurid leg inside its
abdominal cavity.

No pictures available online yet, but I've got the paper, and there's some very nicely preserved feather traces along the length of the body.

Feathered dinosaurs are one of my favourite examples of the science of palaeontology in action. Back in the 70's and 80's, before we even knew of any feathered non-avian dinosaur specimens, palaeontologists predicted that some small theropod dinosaurs had feathers, based on their shared skeletal similarities with birds (enlarged sterna, uncinate processes, hollow bones, etc.). And lo and behold, a fine-grained fossiliferous rock formation in China begins to yeild a whole new fauna of Cretaceous dinosaurs in the mid-90's, many specimens of which preserve feathers.

For those who would argue that evolutionary theory does not make predictions, I would point them to this unraveling of events.

And for those who argue that evolution is unfalsifiable, I think this fossil of Sinocalliopteryx has something to say about that, too. Perhaps even more interesting than the preserved feathers are the preserved gut contents found with this specimen. The belly of this dinosaur contains what has positively been identified as another dinosaur. In fact, that's all we ever find in the fossil gut contents of any dinosaur -- more dinosaurs (and occasionally, primitive mammals and reptiles). If the YEC paradigm is correct, why do we never find modern species like penguins or horses in the gut contents of dinosaurs??? Such a find would certainly falsify evolution and turn the theory on its head.
 

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟42,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Back in the 70's and 80's, before we even knew of any feathered non-avian dinosaur specimens, palaeontologists predicted that some small theropod dinosaurs had feathers
That's nothing:

Sinocalliopteryx gigas ...
Was predicted by Mary Poppins back in 1964.
 
Upvote 0

Jadis40

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2004
963
192
52
Indiana, USA
✟62,145.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
I find it fascinating that there are so few candidates for transitional fossils that finding one is news. This is certainly not what I would expect to be predicted by the TOE.
Doesn't the existence of any transitional fossils essentially negate YECism and the concept of fixed "kinds"? Evolution predicts finds like these; YECism does not.
Regardless, transitional fossils are by no means as rare as you make them out to be. The list given at talkorigins is only a glimpse at transitions between major clades. I could show you additional series of beautiful transitional fossils within clades, such as pachypleurosaurs, ceratopsids, or mosasaurs.
 
Upvote 0

laptoppop

Servant of the living God
May 19, 2006
2,219
189
Southern California
✟31,620.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, "transitional" fossils do not negate YEC -- there is no limit on God's ability to design different critters that are close to each other.

Transitional fossils are rare enough that it is a real issue for evolution -- so much so that many hold to a "punctuated evolution" model.
 
Upvote 0

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
No, "transitional" fossils do not negate YEC -- there is no limit on God's ability to design different critters that are close to each other.
That's ad hoc, pop. Let's be honest.
Transitional fossils are rare enough that it is a real issue for evolution -- so much so that many hold to a "punctuated evolution" model.
"Punk eek" was developed to explain stasis in the fossil record, not the lack of transitional fossils. As the man who developed the theory of punk eek, Gould said, "Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level [given the incomplete nature of the fossil record], but they are abundant between larger groups."
 
Upvote 0

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
I'll admit that YEC does not make any predictions about God's creative power or creativity. But it doesn't limit it either.
That's what I see as one of creation "science's" biggest flaws. It is strictly reactive, refuses to make any predictions, and rejects conflicting evidence on the assumption that nothing can contradict a literal interpretation of the Bible.
That's why creation "science" will never get its foot in the science classroom door, unfortunately.
 
Upvote 0

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟42,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'll admit that YEC does not make any predictions about God's creative power or creativity. But it doesn't limit it either.
When I was a YEC, creation science was quite confidently predicting that no transitionals would be found.

Henry M. Morris & Gary E. Parker said:
What is Creation Science, 1982 revised 1987, p.221

The Creation model, on the other hand, postulates that all the basic types of plants and animals were directly created and did not evolve from other type at all. Consequently the Creationist predicts that no transitional sequences (except within each created type) will ever be found, either in the present array of organisms or in the fossil record.
 
Upvote 0

Mallon

Senior Veteran
Mar 6, 2006
6,109
298
✟30,412.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Someone finally uploaded a picture of the fossil. It's hard to make out the feather traces from this far away, but you can probably see them best around the base and tip of the tail.
20070319-Sinocalliopteryx_gigas.jpg
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.