Another Euro - USA thread...

[Jack of Spades]

This is a thread where we can copy paste and continue all OT questions about Euro-American differencies which come up in other threads.

I envy Scandinavian countries and their standardized test scores.

They're not standardized in US schools? Can schools decide by themselves what kind of tests they do to let students graduate?

 

[Cearbhall]

They're not standardized in US schools? Can schools decide by themselves what kind of tests they do to let students graduate?

Oh, I meant the ranking of Scandinavian countries when the scores of students in industrialized countries are compared.

Though the answer is yes, to a certain degree. I went to private school. Private schools are pretty much free to do what they want and graduate who they want. The only standardized tests I took that actually had a purpose were the two that universities use for admission. Most of my high school teachers drew up end-of-semester exams for their classes, of course, but I never had to pass any assessments that were created by someone outside of the classroom. We didn't have any equivalent of the British GCSE's and A-levels or whatever.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Oh, I meant the ranking of Scandinavian countries when the scores of students in industrialized countries are compared.

They're close to each others I assume? Got any links?

 

[Cearbhall]

They're close to each others I assume? Got any links?

I just looked it up, and Sweden is actually below the US in science. Nevermind. That'll teach me not to lump a region together in all subjects. Finland is much higher, though. Finland outranks us in reading, as well, and Finland and Norway outrank us in math.

 

[Jack of Spades]

I just looked it up, and Sweden is actually below the US in science. Nevermind.

Lol! You're not helping the proletarian cause there!

Though the answer is yes, to a certain degree. I went to private school. Private schools are pretty much free to do what they want and graduate who they want. The only standardized tests I took that actually had a purpose were the two that universities use for admission. Most of my high school teachers drew up end-of-semester exams for their classes, of course, but I never had to pass any assessments that were created by someone outside of the classroom. We didn't have any equivalent of the British GCSE's and A-levels or whatever.

Okay, I'll have to assume that when you're applying for a job, the employer pays a lot of attention to which particular school you went, and not just to the fact that you have graduated. Am I close?

Here it goes like, doesn't matter from which school you graduated, it's the same. That's ofc a bit simplifed, but generally speaking.

Private schools are very rare here. I've only heard of two, and those were for very little kids, I've never known personally anyone who was in a private school.

 

[Cearbhall]

Okay, I'll have to assume that when you're applying for a job, the employer pays a lot of attention to which particular school you went, and not just to the fact that you have graduated. Am I close?

You mean people who enter the work force right out of high school? I don't know what employers look at in that situation. I suppose it depends whether the job requires academic skills. They might ask for GPA.

Private schools are very rare here. I've only heard of two, and those were for very little kids, I've never known personally anyone who was in a private school.

Wow. About 10% of US students go to private school.

 

[Jack of Spades]

You mean people who enter the work force right out of high school? I don't know what employers look at in that situation. I suppose it depends whether the job requires academic skills. They might ask for GPA.

Ummh I don't really know? Our system is a bit different, there is no clear equivalent for high school or college, so I can't really say what I exactly meant. Just anything I guess.

Wow. About 10% of US students go to private school.

I couldn't even find any statistics about this in Finland, so I assume the number is very small. Only number I could find was that there are total of 75 private schools in the country and none of them is university.

Something that probably should be mentioned is that private schools here are not allowed to charge tuition fees. They are usually financed by the government, just like public schools. Private schools must also be run by a non-profit organization to get a lisence. So practically, Finnish private schools are not really private because they're dependent of the government funding, unless they somehow manage to raise donations for their cause.

 

[Cearbhall]

Ummh I don't really know? Our system is a bit different, there is no clear equivalent for high school or college, so I can't really say what I exactly meant. Just anything I guess.

High school is ages 14-18 for us, followed by college/university (the two terms are interchangeable in the US). I have no familiarity with the job application process for someone who ends their education at that point, so I guess I can't answer. As for someone who starts working after university, yes, where you got the degree can make a big difference.

 

[Jack of Spades]

As for someone who starts working after university, yes, where you got the degree can make a big difference.

Makes sense. I believe it's more standardized here.

Our system has three different levels, it goes like this after age of 15:

1.A) Practical jobs, mechanics, barbers etc. (graduates about at age of 18)
1.B) School which preps you to study at level 3, only theoretical studies (graduate at 18).
2. Engineers, nurses, programmers, mid management etc. (graduates about at age of 22) Only people completing either of level 1 schools are accepted in.
3. Doctors, lawyers, economists, researchers etc. (graduates about at age of 25->) Only people completing level 1B are accepted in.

There are some special cases and variety, but that's pretty much the general picture of it. All those four things are different institutions.

 

[Cearbhall]

Our system has three different levels, it goes like this after age of 15:

Oh. That's interesting. In the US, students from any under-18 school (and homeschooled students) are eligible for any university. We don't have different types of schooling that limit your options until after 18.

Makes sense. I believe it's more standardized here.

At the university level? It really doesn't matter how prestigious your university is, or how your specific degree program is ranked?

 

[Jack of Spades]

Oh. That's interesting. In the US, students from any under-18 school (and homeschooled students) are eligible for any university. We don't have different types of schooling that limit your options until after 18.

I see. People can go back to any previous level any time tho, it's also getting less strict nowadays and there are special cases. I've myself been twice in the same level school.

Based on this thread, it appears to me that in America the first two in my list are lumped together = high school and the last two = college. We call only the last level "university". I can't really translate the names of the other levels because of the different system.

At the university level? It really doesn't matter how prestigious your university is, or how your specific degree program is ranked?

I haven't been in university, so I don't have the best idea about it, but as a default I'd say it doesn't matter that much. I would imagine that it might matter more if we're talking about very high level research or stuff like that. Some universities might be more specialized on some topics etc. but with any "basic degree", I don't think there is much difference between different universities.

As for the specific degree programs, I don't know how comparable our concept of degree programs is to US ones either and I can't really say much on the topic.

 

[Cearbhall]

Based on this thread, it appears to me that in America the first two in my list are lumped together = high school and the last two = college. We call only the last level "university". I can't really translate the names of the other levels because of the different system.

Yep. It's just kindergarten-12th grade from ages 5 (or earlier, if the parents want) to 18, and then college/university. There are different types of college/university programs, though. There are associate degrees and other things. The standard is a 4-year bachelor's degree.

I haven't been in university, so I don't have the best idea about it, but as a default I'd say it doesn't matter that much. I would imagine that it might matter more if we're talking about very high level research or stuff like that. Some universities might be more specialized on some topics etc. but with any "basic degree", I don't think there is much difference between different universities.

That's interesting. We Americans are obsessed with the college rankings that come out each year. Everyone freaks out trying to get their kids into a great college.

 

[Jack of Spades]

That's interesting. We Americans are obsessed with the college rankings that come out each year. Everyone freaks out trying to get their kids into a great college.

Hmm. Completely foreign idea to me When I was younger, I remember we only talked about what we want to study, the "where"- factor was not really ever mentioned, at least not in that sense. Here it goes like, you decide what you want to study, then apply to closest school to your home which offers that program.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Lol

Ooonhhh I seen a cool thing about Finland today on Facebook about your schools

What things?

 

[TheGirlOnFire]

 

[Jack of Spades]

@TheGirlOnFire

Quoting from video:

"Teachers profession is highly popular"

- It's popular because teachers get 2 to 3 months paid vacation per year.


"Teachers....are highly qualified and committed. "

- Made me think of one of my teachers who was a drunk, eventually he disappear from work and stole the cash his class was collecting for a school trip...

 

[Cearbhall]

Hmm. Completely foreign idea to me

That sounds freeing. For many families in the US, including my own, the race to the top starts with the selection of a quality preschool when the child is 3. It's good material for our sitcoms...

 

[Jack of Spades]

@Cearbhall

I've gotten the impression that the US society might be much more competitive than ours in pretty much everything. It's difficult to pinpoint any practical examples, but it's the tone generally how people talk about things like school, job or even dating.

 

[Cearbhall]

@Cearbhall

I've gotten the impression that the US society might be much more competitive than ours in pretty much everything.

Yep. Dat capitalism tho. When things like healthcare and maternity leave aren't guaranteed, you end up being more desperate.

 

[Jack of Spades]

Yep. Dat capitalism tho. When things like healthcare and maternity leave aren't guaranteed, you end up being more desperate.

Yes it's very understandable.

I honestly sometimes wonder if the Scandinavian welfare state idea is just a utopia. Most of the building blocks of it owe to the fact that there was worldwide threat of Communist revolutions in the world during 1900's and that made rich and powerful people very afraid of antagonizing the working people, or they might join communists and call in help from Moscow. So they kinda gave in easily for demands made by the working class.

But now it's gone and there isn't much to be afraid of so it might be that when the generations who used to take the threat of working peoples revolution seriously are gone, and their kids realize that if they push for a more hardcore capitalism, nothing bad is going to happen anymore so why not.

In US communism was never popular like it was in Europe, for example, there was a civil war in Finland between commies and the rest about 100 years ago, can't see that happening in the US really.