Another belief I struggle with within the SDA

sentipente · Jul 30, 2007

mva1985 said:
Your post does not say it is wrong to be baptized but it surely does imply that it may not be necessary. Wow! I don't see how anyone can say that baptism is not necessary.

But you did not answer my question about communion or about Jesus' baptism.

This is not a thread about communion. Now, prove that baptism is necessary and what it is necessary for.

mva1985 · Jul 30, 2007

Hope these texts help some:

Romans 6
"1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin."

1 Peter 3
"20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you alsonot the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right handwith angels, authorities and powers in submission to him."

sentipente · Jul 30, 2007

MVA, how can you use a text from the first century to prove that a first century ritual is still needed in the twenty-first century?

mva1985 · Jul 30, 2007

Because the Bible is relevant no matter what century we are in.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

In all seriousness I can't believe that there is even a discussion going on as to whether or not baptism is relevant. Sure there are circumstances where it maybe impossible for some one to be baptized (i.e. the thief on the cross), in those circumstances Jesus was baptized for him.

sentipente · Jul 30, 2007

MVA, don't confuse God and the Bible. They are different. The Bible is a book ABOUT God. It is not God.

mva1985 · Jul 30, 2007

2 Tim. 3
"14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

While the Bible is not God it most certainly is His revelation to us about Him. It is God-breathed. It is also the standard by which we will be judged. As the verse above says the Holy Scriptures contain everything that we need to make us wise for salvation.

moicherie · Jul 31, 2007

mva1985 said:
Your post does not say it is wrong to be baptized but it surely does imply that it may not be necessary. Wow! I don't see how anyone can say that baptism is not necessary.

But you did not answer my question about communion or about Jesus' baptism.

If baptism is necessary thne the thief on the cross wasted his time talking.

moicherie · Jul 31, 2007

mva1985 said:
2 Tim. 3
"14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

While the Bible is not God it most certainly is His revelation to us about Him. It is God-breathed. It is also the standard by which we will be judged. As the verse above says the Holy Scriptures contain everything that we need to make us wise for salvation.

We will be judged based on our relationship with the Creator not how well we followed a book. The leaders of Jesus day followed the Torah but look what they still did. Whats more important how well you follow a book on how to treat your spouse or how well you really treat your spouse?

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

moicherie said:
If baptism is necessary thne the thief on the cross wasted his time talking.

You have not read all most posts concerning this, because I address this very issue.

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

mva1985 said:
You have not read all most posts concerning this, because I address this very issue.

What else needs to be read? Are you suggesting you have a text with an exception? Please post it.

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

I have provided enough texts for anyone really interested in looking into this matter of baptism. If you have a genuine question concerning baptism then you should do a prayerful study on it and examine all texts regarding the matter.

It is now time for you to provide texts saying that baptism is not necessary. Other then just saying that it is an ancient practice and we don't need to do it.

As for the thief on the cross we know for a fact that he will be saved - Jesus said so. What we don't know for 100% is whether or not he was ever baptized previous to being nailed on the cross.

The Sabbath and communion are ancient practices and I don't hear you saying that we should not observe them.

Or how about the eating of only clean meat, another ancient practice.

Should I go on.

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

mva1985 said:
IIt is now time for you to provide texts saying that baptism is not necessary. Other then just saying that it is an ancient practice and we don't need to do it.

I never said you don't need to do it. That is what you are reading in to my post.

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

sentipente said:
Upon reflection I don't see how baptism can be a requirement in today's society. It is a holdover from ancient days. This is not the way we join groups today. I have no problems if someone wants to participate in an ancient practice but it has no relevance to their eternal destiny. Jesus saved the worlds before we were baptized.

You said that you don't see how it can be a requirement in today's society. So what exactly does that mean?

And that it has no relevance to our eternal destiny. Again, I ask why did Jesus do it? And do you practice communion - another ancient practice?

Your post above to refresh your memory.

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

The fact that something is not a requirement does not prevent anyone from practicing it.

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

I leave you with one last text. It seems clear that some need to study this out for themselves. As it should be. One of the things Adventists have always taught was to search things out for ourselves.

Acts 2:37-39 (NIV)

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far offfor all whom the Lord our God will call."

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

Again, you are still in the first century.

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

Do you receive any guidance from the Bible or is it all just OT and First century stuff to you?

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

One question, MVA. Do you think we should practice the rite of baptism exactly the way it was practiced in the first century?

sentipente · Jul 31, 2007

mva1985 said:
Do you receive any guidance from the Bible or is it all just OT and First century stuff to you?

The Bible is the best source of guidance modern man could ever desire. But if you continue jumping to the unwarranted conclusion reflected in your last phrase it is no surprise you end up posting the falsehoods you posted in the Traditional section. May the God have mercy on your soul.

mva1985 · Jul 31, 2007

sentipente said:
One question, MVA. Do you think we should practice the rite of baptism exactly the way it was practiced in the first century?

Yes, baptism by immersion.

Another belief I struggle with within the SDA

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