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Gardenia

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Do you believe animals go to heaven?
Yes, I do.

Do you believe that we 'progress' from animals? (in a spiritual way - sort of like reincarnation).

No, I believe the souls of all animals (humans, cats, fish, whatever) are all.. 'different'. A human may reincarnate as a human, and a cat a cat.. but not a cat as a human.. Course, ive got no proof on this of course, it is just my belief.


Theowne said:
It may be tempting to hold this view about lovable dogs, but does this also mean you believe that ants, cockroaches, tapeworms and the like will also have their spot in heaven?
Ants are one of my favorite animals! Im sure all these creatues will be there, hey I mean.. there are tons of different sorts of beeltes and bugs, so God must really like them, right?
 
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Talcara

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Hi Montalban,

Do you believe animals go to heaven?

No. According to Genesis, only mankind is made in the image of God and thus inherit His eternal spirit. Once animals die, that's it, IMHO. Either way, I'm not overly worried. When talking about the resurrection of the dead on Judgment Day, it appears as though Jesus is just refering to human beings and not the animals.

Do you believe that we 'progress' from animals? (in a spiritual way - sort of like reincarnation).

Not quite sure what you mean, but I just simply believe that mankind is made a lot higher than the animals in the Image of God and thus did not "progress" from animals.
 
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sefroth77

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SlaveOfGod said:
Whoever harms an animal has to repent to Allaah for that, because the Lord of the animals is the One Who has commanded us to be kind towards them (unless they are harmful).

End of Answer

Than why are muslims eating meat for enjoyment ???? arent they supposed to be kind to animals. If this is the case then most musilms will have to repent to Allah.
 
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Druweid

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"Any problem can be rendered insoluable if enough committee meetings are held to discuss it."


Sorry. Just had to throw that in. Now back to our regularly scheduled post.

-- Druweid
 
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vajradhara

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Namaste Montalban,

thank you for the post.

i wish more of them were so easily answered in my case


Montalban said:
Two questions, (maybe should have two threads)


Do you believe animals go to heaven?

no.

Do you believe that we 'progress' from animals? (in a spiritual way - sort of like reincarnation).

no.

metta,

~v
 
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LibertyChic

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LOL

I shudder to think if my Rottweiler and other Rotties like her were to take over the world. She has the mentality of a happy three year old, most of the time.
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Just this past Saturday, we (Jews all over the world) read the weekly Shabbat/Sabbath Torah reading (http://www.jewfaq.org/readings.htm) of Genesis 1:1-6:8. This coming Shabbat/Saturday, we'll read Genesis 6:9-11:32.

In Genesis 1:24-28, we read:


Thus we see that: 1) We and the animals are linked; we were created on the same day; 2) God pronounced animal life to be good; thus animals have inherent, Divine worth; and 3) we are to have dominion over animal life.

But notice God's admonition to Noah in Genesis 9:1-2:


Note the difference. Note the inclusion of a new element in our relationship with the animals: fear. Also note that whereas we previously had a general, "dominion," over animalkind, now the latter are explicitly delivered into our hand. The late Prof. Nechama Leibowitz (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/nleib.html) writes in her Studies in Bereshit/Genesis:


The animal kingdom does well to fear us.

I watched a half-hour episode of a documentary series on the National Geographic Channel Monday night. This series is about extinct species. It uses amazing computer-generated animation and is very good. Monday night's episode was about the Great Auk (see http://www.rom.on.ca/biodiversity/auk/aukhist.html). The Great Auk is unique, not only because its extinction was solely & exclusively the result of deliberate human butchery (like the Steller Sea Cow), but because we know the exact date on which the Great Auk became extinct, June 3 1844 (see http://www.rom.on.ca/biodiversity/auk/aukhist.html#Extinction). I find this so sad; I got all teary-eyed watching the documentary Monday night (prompting our 4 year-old to run to my wife saying, "Mommy, Daddy's crying.")

I found this to be chilling. I thought of that broken egg, juxtaposed to its butchered parents, and immediately thought of Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 and 6:3-5 (We read the Book of Ecclesiastes during morning prayers on Saturday October 22, the Sabbath of the intermediate days of our week-long holyday of Sukkot (http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm; Ecclesiastes is my favorite book of the Bible, so I've been thinking about it alot lately):


Now, I am not some PETA or Animal Liberation Front nutjob, I'm not even a vegetarian. But we have slaughtered whole species! What delirium of arrogance and vanity possesses us that we do such monstrous things (not just once or twice or a hundred times but again and again and again ad nauseum) that we destroy the work, not of our hands, but of God's? And for what? For our vanity!

In Leviticus 25:23 God says:

And the land shall not be sold in perpetuity; for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.

I know I'm taking this verse out of its specific context, but if we, who are but, "strangers and sojourners," with God, are not to sell the land in perpetuity because the land is His, then how is it that we wipe out whole species, which are also His?

Our Sages note the precise wording of God's rebuke of Cain in Genesis 4:10:

And He said: 'What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries unto Me from the ground.

In the original Hebrew, "your brother's blood" is kol damei achicha, literally, "the voice of your brother's bloods, i.e. it's in the plural. Our Sages comment on this and teach that the voices of all of Abel's future descendants, who would never be born and never exist in this world, cried out to God. I fear that all the Great Auks and Steller Sea Cows and Dodos and Passenger Pigeons and Tasmanian Marsupial Wolves who will not be born and who will never exist in this world, because of our cruelty and vanity and ignorance and selfishness, are crying out to God, and that we will be collectively held to account for the outrages we have inflicted on the earth (which belongs to who?), including the extinction (used here as a transitive verb, as in "to extinct" something) of whole species. I cannot believe that it was for this that God appoined us to be stewards of His world.

Be well!

ssv
 
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