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Angels and Demons

jesus_freak1513

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Dear Forum,
I would like to see how "historically accurate" Dan Brown's Angels and Demons is. If find the story fasinating. The book is were I first heard of the illuminati. It also had a lot about the Pope and procedures after the death of the pope. I am not a catholic and therefore; I don't know anything about it so I think it is really interesting. I find it a very good read. Does anyone have any comments? Please speak up.

-jesus_freak1513
 

Redtigerlily

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The book implicates what is thought to be common knowledge with some deeper biblical study, however the majority or the book is ultimately fictional and twists biblical events to coincide with the story. He had to change some things or apply a twisted view or else the story wouldn't make any sense.
 
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fieldlily

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jesus_freak1513 said:
Dear Forum,
I would like to see how "historically accurate" Dan Brown's Angels and Demons is. If find the story fasinating. The book is were I first heard of the illuminati. It also had a lot about the Pope and procedures after the death of the pope. I am not a catholic and therefore; I don't know anything about it so I think it is really interesting. I find it a very good read. Does anyone have any comments? Please speak up.

-jesus_freak1513

Yes, I read it not long ago. It is an exciting read but it is fiction. The details about the pope's election are fairly accurate as well as the descriptions of the Vatican itself (buildings, etc.) which means Brown did some research. I grew up Roman Catholic and know that the part about the illuminati is not accurate although the name has been attached to certain mafia like groups but is not connected with the Opus Dei. You could probably go to google and find information online.

The story is mainly mystery, romance, intrique, a little science fiction, and adventure and makes for good escapism. It would make a good movie much like others of that type. Like--- it reminds me of Raiders of the Lost Ark (Indiana Jones looking for the Ark of the Covenant) and The Last Crusade( Indiana Jones and his father looking for the Holy Grail) and recently Nicholas Cage in National Treasure. Fun, but the product of imagination sometimes mixed with a few facts. Not to be taken seriously. Brown is a very gifted writer who pens a good tale. :wave:
 
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AngylBelle

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I agree. Angels and Demons is at the top of my list of favorite fiction writing, but is important to understand that it is just that, fiction. Of course there is a fair amount of historical reference that is indeed accurate, but as a whole, it was written not to educate readers, but to entertain those of us, like you and me, who enjoy an adventure with a realistic and plausible foundation. Dan Brown is an excellent writer who is well on his way to the top!.
 
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FunkyBrother

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Dan Brown IS trying to educate people. He tries to pass off fiction as fact.
I find him blasphemous Read my review of the Da Vinci code:


The Dan Brown Code. Critique by Kevin Willimas



Dan Brown’s fast paced novel “Da Vinci Code” has been at the top of the book charts for many months, selling more than seven million hardback copies, translated into more than 40 languages and is being made into a blockbuster movie.



The book starts with a murder in the Louvre Museum in Paris, of a Grand Master of an ancient society, guarding a secret that if revealed would threaten the very existence of the Christian Church. Police call main character Robert Langdon, a Harvard University professor of religious symbology, who throughout the novel, in order to solve the mystery (and propagate Brown’s Pagan religion onto the reader) teaches Police cryptographer Sophie Neveu (and the unsuspecting reader) Brown’s secret code (I refer to it as Brown’s code as there is no evidence whatsoever that Leonardo Da Vinci has anything to do with it). Brown claims that Jesus was not divine and that He and Mary Magdalene were sexual partners and had a child together, then she emigrated to France with their child and there is documented proof which has been guarded by a secret organisation called the Priory of Zion since the Crusades and Da Vinci was also a Grand Master and clues are hidden in his paintings. While this is going on the sub plot promotes that the real way to God is through drug taking, sex orgies and homosexuality and that’s the message the human Jesus was really telling people about, but this has all been suppressed by the early church.



These theories also promoted by the Jesus Seminar (*See Jesus Seminar Below) are not new, and have long been discredited which goes to show the wisdom of an old proverb: “Bad and incorrect theories don’t go away, they simply re-invent themselves.” They have no credibility, but Brown uses the standard romance writing formula of over the top characters against exotic backgrounds and many cliff hangers to make an exciting read to promote his beliefs to his masses of readers. The book maybe a work of fiction, but Brown is trying to pass most of it off as fact and this has led to a lot of confused people and there are even Da Vinci code classes, were people learn this whole new religion and perform ritual’s worshipping the Sacred Feminine. When interviewed on NBC’s Today show and asked: “How much was based on reality?” Brown declared: “Absolutely all of it. Obviously, Robert Langdon is fictional, but all of the art, architecture, secret rituals, secret societies-all of that is historical fact.” Brown said to a US magazine: “One of the aspects that I try very hard to incorporate is that of learning. When you’ve finished the book, like it or not, you’ve learned a ton.”



Indeed, before I knew anything about ‘Brown’s Code’, I had met quite a few people who were quoting and trying to impose Brown’s beliefs on me. Whilst I already knew that what they were saying was full of holes and incorrect, I had no idea where they were getting their theories from as whilst they were naive enough to get their religious philosophy from a novel, apart from one person, they weren’t quite daft enough to admit it.



Brown says that the history we know of the church is false as “history is written by winners, the societies and belief systems that conquered and survived.” Regarding the Bible, this completely ignores the facts. The Bible is a true history document that comes with warts and all. If the ‘winners’ who wrote the Bible wanted to change history to suite them; when writing of the great King David, they wouldn’t have included the part were David gets another man killed so he could sleep with his wife. Nor would a women have been the first to see the risen Jesus (as women weren’t considered credible witnesses at that time, a women being first to see the risen Jesus must have been a bit of an embarrassment for the gospel writers, if you was making a story up, you would have picked a man, but the only reason they would have said that it was a women is simply because it’s true.) There are literally hundreds of ‘warts and all’ parts of the Bible which would not have not been included if Brown’s ‘winners’ theory about the Bible was true.



Brown’s code promotes that the Bible is anti-sex even in a loving marriage (completely ignoring the facts like the Song of Solomon) and that unlike in the Bible, sex should not be attached to love and that really ‘free-love’ should be practiced. But the ‘sex without strings’ part of Brown’s world just does not work. No honest women would want to be loved only erotically as Brown’s ‘Mother Earth worshiping’ Paganism promotes, otherwise she would always feel vulnerable to the next better looking women. To quote from C.S Lewis’ The Four Loves: “The thing is a sensory pleasure; that is, an event occurring within one’s own body. We use a most unfortunate idiom when we say, of a lustful man prowling the streets, that he “wants a women.” Strictly speaking, a woman is just what he does not want. He wants a pleasure for which a women happens to be the necessary piece of apparatus. How much he cares about the woman as such may be gauged by his attitude to her five minutes after the fruition (one does not keep the carton after one has smoked the cigarettes).”



Brown’s code also claims that the Church murdered over five million women over three centuries. It is referring to the witch trials, but even top pagan scholars accept the number of executions across Europe was around 50,000 and that the secular world was also to blame [still 50,000 too many].



The story claims that Jesus’ divinity was the result of a vote at the Council of Nicea in AD321 and it was a very close vote. This is far from the truth. The earliest writings showing Jesus as the divine and resurrected Son of God come from the pen of Paul from between 48 and 60 AD (for a full easy reading book on the historical reliability of the gospels I recommend reading Lee Strobel’s A Case For Christ. Strobel was an atheist and critique of religion until he studied the evidence from a legal point of view, and then became a Christian and eventually a minister. The book asks the toughest questions.) It is without doubt that the early Church viewed Jesus as divine as many early Christians, including those who were around at the time and saw the risen Jesus, were being tortured and killed for their beliefs (who would go through that if they knew it was a lie?). Also when our early writings of Jesus were being taught in the very villages where they happened, they would have been heard by people who were there when the events actually took place. If they weren’t true these people would have pointed out: “No that didn’t happen.” And the early Church would have never have got off the ground. But they did happen. There are many early Church leaders we can quote like: Ignatius: “God Himself was manifested in human form” (A.D.105)

Justin Martyr: “The father of the universe has a son. And He... is even God” (A.D.160)

Tertullian: “...Christ our God” (A.D.200). I could go on space permitting, but I think you get the point that divinity wasn’t conjured up in 321AD.



What really happened at the council of Nicea is that the Gospels which were already being taught and believed to be true since day one of the Church were rubber stamped to stop any teaching of Gospels which had been written hundreds of years later and where legend had developed. Academics agree that the gospels in our Bible were written too close to the events for legend to develop (in all history, legends start to develop after about 200 years, which is far later than all of the New Testament). About 250 years later stories like Jesus playing as a kid and throwing mud which turned into birds and flew off started to appear. The Gnostic Gospel’s of Phillip and Thomas which Dan Brown and the Jesus Seminar rely on so much were written much later than even these. Even Gnostic priests of the Nicene time denied that the Phillip and Thomas gospels had any credibility.



The Nicene Creed (“We believe in one God...”) was merely what had been taught since the beginning of the Church and out of 300 bishops, only two voted against it. Hardly a close vote on Jesus’ divinity as Brown perverts the facts.

Brown’s ‘Priory of Zion’ and the ‘Da Vinci code’ theories come from a Hoax by Frenchman Pierre Plantard (jailed for fraud in 1953) who throughout the 70’s provided a series of fake documents proving the bloodline of Mary Magdalene, through the Kings of France and to the present day to surprise, surprise, Pierre Plantard. Plantard also claimed to be the true King of France. Brown claims that in Leonardo’s Da Vinci’s painting the Last Supper that the disciple John on Jesus’ right is really Mary Magdalene and this is a clue left that they were married. As there are only Jesus and the 12 disciples in the painting, I presume Brown thinks that John’s nipped off for a brew or something.



The code promotes religious unity, a pagan and Satanist view, the circle of life that there is no right or wrong (Yes, the Disney film ‘The Lion King’ is about teaching this philosophy to children). It teaches that God is really the ‘Sacred Feminine’ or ‘Mother Earth.’ That in the story of Genesis it was really the serpent who was the good guy and that God was jealous and possessive and then again that Satan and God don’t really exist. They often contradict themselves and it may seem confusing, but that’s okay because in the circle of life there is no right or wrong. Under their system it was right for Hitler to do what he did, because you have to respect Hitler’s beliefs. The Gnostics believe that everyone is divine, we should worship ourselves.



But as we know God is righteous. God can not be both good and bad. The apostle Paul set out two opposing systems from Righteous to Wickedness, Light to Darkness, the Worship of the Creator to the Worship of the Creature. Jesus warned of praying like pagans (doing it for show) and also said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No-one will get to the Father except through me.”



The world has many religions, but ultimately there are only two. As Bob Dylan sang, “You’re gonna have to serve somebody, it maybe the devil or it maybe the Lord, but you’re gonna have to serve somebody.” Elijah put the same choice before God’s people in 1 Kings 18:21: “How long will you waver between two options? If the Lord is God, follow Him”.

*The JESUS SEMINAR is a small minority group of scholars who exist for the sole the purpose of undermining the gospels, but pass themselves off as the majority scholars opinion and the only ‘experts’ qualified to speak about the Gospels. Almost every time you see a BBC or other channel religious history program or something in the newspapers about how something from the Bible isn’t true, the Jesus Seminar is behind it. Through being controversial and also promoting the media’s anti-God views they obtain masses of publicity. When they debate against great New Testament Scholars like Craig Bloomberg, the Jesus Seminar comes very easily unstuck and is left with no credibility, but that is why scholars like Bloomberg are never invited to speak on these programs. The result is that the JS scholars get to pass their unchallenged views off as fact to a largely unsuspecting public. They have published their own gospel with colour coded words: Red: Jesus undoubtedly said this or something very like it. Pink: Jesus probably or might have said something like this. Gray: Jesus did not say this, but the ideas are close to His own. Black: Jesus did not say this; it represents a later tradition. The way they came about their theories, is any thing said which mentions prophesy or miracles isn’t true as they’re impossible, and if it’s in all four of the gospels it’s red, if it’s in three then it’s Pink and so on. But prominence is given to the fourth century Gnostic gospel of Thomas despite it being academically agreed that the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas is a long way removed from the Gospel’s and is certainly very heavily influenced by pagan beliefs around the Nile of the fourth century. They also rely on a gospel referred to as ‘Q’, which no one has ever seen, largely because it doesn’t exist. Using their method were anything that is only written once or twice is not true, 80% of Jesus’ words disappear. If they used this method on other history, nearly all history as we know it from that time and before would cease to exist. But the JS doesn’t dispute any other historical events as they’d rightly get laughed away, only the New Testament. When the regular onslaught of attacks on Christianity via the BBC, C4, Discovery etc and press, comes this Easter, and your non-Christian or sceptical friends claim that this and that isn’t true, you now know the source of the nonsense.
 
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Injured Soldier

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jesus_freak1513 said:
Dear Forum,
I would like to see how "historically accurate" Dan Brown's Angels and Demons is. If find the story fasinating. The book is were I first heard of the illuminati.

The Illuminati that Dan Brown is most likely talking about is the Barvarian Illuminati. There have been others, but they were hardly paragons of science like Dan Brown's Illuminati. The Barvarian Illuminati were formed over 100 years after Galileo's death, and suppressed a few decades later, only conspiracy theories remain.

It also had a lot about the Pope and procedures after the death of the pope. I am not a catholic and therefore; I don't know anything about it so I think it is really interesting.

Many things with Dan Brown's account of the papal election process are wrong - the favoured cardinals are called papabili not preferiti, there is no such appointment as "Grand Elector" in the College of Cardinals (it is a name used to refer to the cardinal with the most influence on the election process after the event), a pope under 60 can be elected (JPII was 58 when elected pope), there need not be unanimous election just qualified majority, the carmelengo is a cardinal and participates in the election process (and can be elected pope), and there is nothing call election by acclaimation. The things he got right. The conclave is made up of cardinals under the age of 80, it is 15 days after the popes death that conclave begins, they are locked in St Peter's Basilica until one is elected, and no communication with the outside world is allowed.

And that is without mentioning Bernini. My friend, a fanatic art lover, cried after hearing too much about Brown's Bernini. ;)
 
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Axion

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The basic idea in Brown's books that the Church and "Science" were always opposed is nonsense.

Most of the great scientists were Christians, many of them (Bacon, Copernicus, Mendel) were priests. The Church founded all the great European Universities and led in the arts of architecture, technology, music, engineering, philosophy, etc.
 
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