An attempt to eliminate God.

maco · Dec 31, 2014

listed said:
You are focusing on sins of people who are not Christians but church going religious people. You have them at your church. You are not talking about theology. If you choose to say that is not true then I must tell you for a fact no one at any church I have ever attended participate in some of your listed sins. You are barking (making useless noise) at the wrong people here.

I am focusing on what God calls righteousness and godly love. He has set the standard for what righteousness and godly love is. Just because we struggle to live up to it in these fallen bodies does not give you the right to do away with the standard or change it. The standard for that which is right, good and holy is eternal. Sinful man in his natural state is at enmity with God's Law. If you find yourself at odds with God's Law that is your personal problem. Those who love God, love His Law and rejoice in it. Remember, the Law was here before sin and will be here long after sin is done away with. Murder was sin before Sinai.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

BornAgainBrian said:
So you hold that this mention of Sabbath is talking about another Sabbath which is mentioned nowhere else in Scripture and doesn't exist?

Are all these New Testament verses meaningless? Is that your stance?

You are catching on. They disregard even select passages found in the Book of the Law (works of Moses).

listed · Dec 31, 2014

BornAgainBrian said:
"Mess with God's word"? What's with the random insult?

That is their style and habit. You will get used to it.

maco · Dec 31, 2014

listed said:
That is their style and habit. You will get used to it.

Do you really think you can escape the Law of God? The Law of God defines what is right, good and holy. He is not doing away with the standard, He is bringing us up to it. That's of course if you desire to be conformed to God's standard if not, you need to find yourself a hobby and stop wasting your time in church and reading your Bible.

Steeno7 · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
I am focusing on what God calls righteousness and godly love. He has set the standard for what righteousness and godly love is. Just because we struggle to live up to it in these fallen bodies does not give you the right to do away with the standard or change it. The standard for that which is right, good and holy is eternal. Sinful man in his natural state is at enmity with God's Law. If you find yourself at odds with God's Law that is your personal problem. Those who love God, love His Law and rejoice in it. Remember, the Law was here before sin and will be here long after sin is done away with. Murder was sin before Sinai.

Actually no, sin was here before the Law. The Law was added (Gal. 3:19) until the Seed would come. Jesus Christ is the Seed, and He has come.

Simple question. Are Christians the unrighteous or the righteous?

BornAgainBrian · Dec 31, 2014

re Maco

The oracles, as the translation you used puts it, seem to be describing the law in the same way Paul did in Gal 3. It was a tutor to lead us to Christ. They are recounting this history.

In Romans 14, they go over how Christ's command to love overlaps with some of the commandments. It's interesting that he cites a command not included in the original ten, yet legalists are adamant that this is proof that God did not fulfill the law.

You may insult anyone who disagrees with you by claiming they are furthering satan's work. It doesn't change the Nee Covenant I'm under. Christ said I would be insulted for His sake, even ad the Pharisees insulted Him.

BornAgainBrian · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
Do you really think you can escape the Law of God? The Law of God defines what is right, good and holy. He is not doing away with the standard, He is bringing us up to it. That's of course if you desire to be conformed to God's standard if not, you need to find yourself a hobby and stop wasting your time in church and reading your Bible.

Since I see no proof that the law of Moses is God's standard for everyone, I really don't have to worry much.

maco · Dec 31, 2014

Steeno7 said:
Actually no, sin was here before the Law. The Law was added (Gal. 3:19) until the Seed would come. Jesus Christ is the Seed, and He has come.

Simple question. Are Christians the unrighteous or the righteous?

You need to talk to Cain about that.

Righteous people practice righteousness, not try to do away with it.

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

God gave this one especially for you.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

maco · Dec 31, 2014

BornAgainBrian said:
Since I see no proof that the law of Moses is God's standard for everyone, I really don't have to worry much.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they say, Peace and safety! then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Steeno7 · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
You need to talk to Cain about that

No, I need to talk to you about that. Running away from questions and going on senseless rants does nothing to help your cause.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
Tell me, what are the oracles of God in Acts 7:37-38?

Acts 7:37-38 This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear. This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us.

It does appear that your quoted passage does speak about Jesus if none of the rest of the chapter is read. Your idea does not fit the rest of the Scripture especially from Exodus through the Gospels.

And in Hebrews 5:12?

Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

OK call others ignorant and elevate yourself. Very cool!!!!

And 1 Peter 4:11?

1 Peter 4:11 If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

No problem here. Unfortunately you do not allow this grace to others.

How does God define godly love?

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet, and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Much can be said here. But I shall pass.

How does God establish His people for Himself?

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Yes, but you quote part of a sentence to support your false idea. In divorcing this from the rest of the sentence you can make it appear the OC is what is written on our hearts. The full sentence will not support your idea.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Same here as this is quoting Jeremiah. Maybe you should consider more of the chapter.

The Law has a very important role in the New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.

What exactly is the role of the law in the NC seeing we are told to throw it out? Gal 4

Exodus 19:5-6 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.

There is no doubt Israel gets special attention above and beyond any other group of people.

The very next thing in Exodus 19 that God did was give the Ten Commandments to use to make His special treasure, holy nation and royal priesthood. The Ten Commandments is still the means by which God will establish a people for Himself.

No. The prophets and NT proves without doubt you are incorrect.

1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.This is not talking about an earthly kingdom or nation.

Do away with the Law and all this goes away and Satan loves it.

Click to expand...

Hardly. What satan loves is the destruction of belief therefore souls.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
I am focusing on what God calls righteousness and godly love. He has set the standard for what righteousness and godly love is. Just because we struggle to live up to it in these fallen bodies does not give you the right to do away with the standard or change it. The standard for that which is right, good and holy is eternal. Sinful man in his natural state is at enmity with God's Law. If you find yourself at odds with God's Law that is your personal problem. Those who love God, love His Law and rejoice in it. Remember, the Law was here before sin and will be here long after sin is done away with. Murder was sin before Sinai.

No because righteousness is apart from the law. Rom 3:21

listed · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
I am focusing on what God calls righteousness and godly love. He has set the standard for what righteousness and godly love is. Just because we struggle to live up to it in these fallen bodies does not give you the right to do away with the standard or change it. The standard for that which is right, good and holy is eternal. Sinful man in his natural state is at enmity with God's Law. If you find yourself at odds with God's Law that is your personal problem. Those who love God, love His Law and rejoice in it. Remember, the Law was here before sin and will be here long after sin is done away with. Murder was sin before Sinai.

I do not set the OC aside. God did as He promised He would testified to by Jesus (God) in 3 Gospels.

For until the law sin was in the world

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions

All can see Paul is made a liar once again with the Scripture being set aside.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
Do you really think you can escape the Law of God? The Law of God defines what is right, good and holy. He is not doing away with the standard, He is bringing us up to it. That's of course if you desire to be conformed to God's standard if not, you need to find yourself a hobby and stop wasting your time in church and reading your Bible.

Do you use grace to void the law when you violate it? I do not need grace because I violate something that has no jurisdiction over me. I need grace because of sin. Does one really need the law to understand stealing is wrong? If so do you really love someone who steals from you? I doubt it very much. Would you love some one having an affair with your wife. Would it change your relationship with your wife. Remember an affair has 2 willing partners. My wager is you would have much ill will towards both unless it was also your life style.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

Steeno7 said:
Actually no, sin was here before the Law. The Law was added (Gal. 3:19) until the Seed would come. Jesus Christ is the Seed, and He has come.

Simple question. Are Christians the unrighteous or the righteous?

From my reading here and the Scripture I would say they believe we are wicked and ungodly. They do not accept the position of a Christian. I am talking about Christians - not religious people calling themselves Christians.

listed · Dec 31, 2014

maco said:
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they say, Peace and safety! then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

Must be why the pro law neighbor's garden failed and mine did very well.

BornAgainBrian · Dec 31, 2014

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they say, Peace and safety! then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

And how exactly is this proof that the Law of Moses is God's standard for everyone?

Could you show that instead of questioning the very salvation of those who disagree with you?

listed · Dec 31, 2014

Steeno7 said:
No, I need to talk to you about that. Running away from questions and going on senseless rants does nothing to help your cause.

Agreed. That is what they do when they get pinched.

BornAgainBrian · Dec 31, 2014

Steeno7 said:
No, I need to talk to you about that. Running away from questions and going on senseless rants does nothing to help your cause.

That seems to be the norm.

VictorC · Dec 31, 2014

VictorC said:
Elder 111 said:

In my studies it has dawn on me that the attempt to have God's Holy Ten commandment law abolished is an attempt to abolish God.
I see that on so many levels.

Removal of God laws is the removal of His government. How can one rule with out Law? Which ruler does that?

To take down God's law one would have to take down God, the law giver!

New rules new ruler.

God's law is under His throne/mercy seat, to get to His law one would definitely have to move Him. That amounts to dethroning God!

We do not understand the extent of our advocating the abolition of the Ten commandments. Even the first 4 directly refer to God. When we remove these where is God? Where is His sovereignty/worship and dignity as God?

Click to expand...

I shortened your OP and highlighted what I see as a problem.
It isn't any "we" who advocate the abolition of the Mosaic covenant - which as you know is what the Ten Commandments was (including the Book of the Law).
That is the action taken by God in His redemption, presented alternately by removing the recipients from the Law or taking the Law away, depending on which post-Calvary epistle you refer to. The loss of jurisdiction is the same result in either case - and as you know, that was necessary for the Gentile nations to recieve the blessings promised through Abraham 430 years before the Ten Commandments existed. You've seen all of these explanations in past posts.
The result of your OP is to argue that God acted to abolish Himself.
Even your bulleted points are nonsense based on fantasy.
This thread doesn't deserve further comment.

Elder 111 said:
The idea that God's ten commandments is abolish seek to eliminate God on this wise.

God is the author of the Ten. It removes His authority. How can one govern when the laws they set forth are ignored? They essentially have no power.

In the first four of the Ten Commandments there is direct service and worship to God as our Lord, creator and Saviour. Remove those and what do we have? No reason to worship God!

All you've done is repeat the failed notion from your OP. You forgot that God didn't give you the Ten Commandments, and it was by His Hand that He took it away in order to extend His salvation to the Gentile nations. The result of your OP is to argue that God acted to abolish Himself.
You are wrong.

An attempt to eliminate God.

Well-Known Member

are you?

are you?

Well-Known Member

Not I...but Christ

The Honourable Schoolboy

The Honourable Schoolboy

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Not I...but Christ

are you?

are you?

are you?

are you?

are you?

are you?

The Honourable Schoolboy

are you?

The Honourable Schoolboy

Jesus - that's my final answer

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency