An Atheist Visitor

[Raemon]

Hello there. I'm an atheist. I've come to this forum for a rather specific reason, one that does not seem explicitly against the rules but that there also doesn't seem to be a forum for. I'm here now looking for advice, both on where I may want to go on this website as well as how to make sure I don't inadvertently break the CoC.

I am twenty years old. I've been close friends with a Christian for the past ten years. Occassionally we've had discussions about our beliefs, occassionally those discussions have taken the form of arguments that never really accomplished anything.

Recently, I've come to realize that he's had a rather inaccurate perception of what it's like to be an atheist. And if he's known me for 10 years and still misunderstands how I think and feel, I bet there are a lot of other Christians out there who do the same.

I've explored Christianity in fair detail, and thought a lot about it. It is definitely something I could never believe in. I'm not here to debate, or to advocate that anyone else adopt my views. But I am here to explain exactly what my views are. Doing so means walking a fine line between debate and discussion. The last time I attempted this at a Christian Forum, I got a very positive response from the other people in the forum but my account was eventually banned. The official reason was that at some point I posted a link to an atheist website (to answer a specific question a Christian had asked), which was against the TOS. I think the real reason was that I made the administrators uncomfortable.

If I accomplish anything here, some people probably will be made uncomfortable. But I think it is worth it, for myself and for the Christians here.

It is worthwhile to me because I believe if this world has any hope for peace, people will need to learn to understand each other, and regard each other as fully human. I know that simply explaining how an atheist thinks will not bring about any sweeping changes, but it is a first step, one that I think I am qualified for.

I believe it will also be worthwhile to you, even if you do not share the same kind of hope I do. I know for most people here, the world's greatest hope is Jesus Christ, and you believe humanity would be best off if everyone could believe in Him.

I don't expect anyone here to convince me of anything. Many have tried before. I don't know if anyone will ever succeed. But I know that any chance I have of finding Jesus will come from Christians who understand who I am.

 

[Lisa0315]

Hi! You are most welcome here! I will look forward to knocking heads with you in GA when you get your post count up to 100.

BTW, just recently a Christian was immediately banned for linking his own Christian website. I wanted you to know that you were not singled out for your belief, (or lack thereof).

Anyway, nice to meet you and I hope to see you around soon!

Lisa

 

[Raemon]

On the forum in question, the rule was actually pretty explicit: No posting of links to unchristian websites. So I really can't blame anyone for not reading the rules, I just think the rules in that case were unnecessary. I do think just posting a link that says "Hey, here's my sight, come check it out," is a little crass, regardless of what the website was. But that wasn't the case.

This particular forum (the New Member Intro forum) seems like it's probably not the best place to have the discussion I want to have, but I can't see any other forums that seem appropriate. Do you have any ideas, or do you think I should just stick it out here and hope for the best?

Also, any moderators who might be following: I've read the rules thoroughly this time but I'm still not sure where the line is drawn between talking about my beliefs and advocating them. If there's any kind of guideline you could offer, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Lisa0315]

Well, you won't be able to post in any of the debate forums until you reach 100 posts. That is a rule that may not have applied when you were here before.

However, if you want to just talk about mundane things, we can get you to 100 posts in no time at all! I will be glad to help, and maybe, we can get to know one another in the process.

Okay, I will start.

What is your story? How did you come to being an atheist?

Lisa

 

[Raemon]

I call myself an agnostic atheist. Some people call this term “agnostic,” others call it the “weak atheist” position. I generally worry less about what to call myself and more about what my beliefs actually are, regardless of their name.

The core tenet by which I live my life is that you should only commit absolutely to something (i.e. commit so strongly you will not allow anything to change your mind) if you know for certain you MUST make that commitment. I've seen people across the world believe things so strongly that they would never allow their minds to change. Clearly, since many of those people disagree with one another, most of them must be wrong. If I am going to commit to something, I don't want to risk being wrong, because then I'd never have a chance to find the truth.

So far, I haven’t seen, heard or felt anything that has suggested to me I should make such a commitment.

I have, on occassion, attempted to talk to God. Sometimes, those attempts were rather brazen on my part, and I wouldn't blame God for ignoring them. But there have also been times when I did try my best to open up to him. I've even felt something that one might consider a revelation (it felt powerful to me) which led me to strongly consider Zoroastrianism as a religion that might be true. If I was ever going to start on a path that might have led to me finding religion, that was it. But after the initial feeling of connectedness, God was silent. If that was a delusion, then I don't know how I would ever distinguish delusion from reality.

I am 20 years old. I am living a happy life, and I feel a strong sense of purpose. I’m a creative person, and using my various artistic skills, I know I will create stories over the course of my life that will help shape the next generation of humanity. The media has tremendous power in the modern world and I want to make sure I use that power responsibly.

I was raised by a Catholic mother and an Atheist father in New York state. My mom took me to church when I was younger. My dad never told me what to believe about God. I started reading astronomy and evolution books when I was around 6 (mostly looking at the pictures). My dad explained some of the more complicated stuff. My mom also believed in evolution, but believed it was part of God’s work. I am more logically than emotionally minded (though I certainly have emotions), and there are things about Christianity that don’t make sense to me.

I do not smoke, or drink - I do spend a lot more time than I should on the computer. I have yet to be in a physical relationship of any kind. I am a vegetarian. I was a boy scout. I procrastinate a lot, and sometimes goof off at work, though when I do, I’ll finish my job off the clock to make up for it. (I think that’s actually against the rules at my job. I do it anyway ‘cause I feel bad if I don’t.)

I have no interest in immortality or eternity. (They’re different things, although that’s a whole argument by itself. In fact, maybe a good one to discuss later). Everything I have an interest in accomplishing I can do in the time that I have. If that time was cut short (Struck by lightning, disease, car crash, etc) I might wish that I had more time, but I would never want life to go on forever. I would rather disappear than go to heaven.

I do not believe Jesus was the son of God, nor that he performed miracles. I believe he was a man who said many important things, but that his message got distorted over time. I believe science can explain how the world works, and that it is up to each of us to determine our own purpose. I don’t think Christianity is inherently good or bad. It is a powerful force in the world. It has changed many lives, sometimes for good, sometimes for ill, and I certainly respect those who feel it has helped them.

 

[Lisa0315]

Thanks!

I was raised in a fundementalist Baptist church, and by the time I was 13, I had so many questions that I stopped going to church. It was mostly because the people were so hypocritical that I just could not believe anymore. Anyway, I never ever in a hundred million years thought that I would be a Christian (again?), but here I am, and a fundie to boot. Admittedly, I do not call myself a fundie because of the negative implications of that. I believe many of the same things, but I do not believe in the political agendas that fundies have become so famous for. I do not want to be associated with the Pat Robertsons, etc. I call myself a Conservative Evangelical Christian. (Hover over my character and you will see what I mean)

Anyway, I had something of a Damascus experience, and it changed my life. This happened just three years ago, and that is why I attempt to befriend as many atheists on this board as I can. I do understand the questions and the perspective, and I do not believe that I would be a Christian today except that for whatever reason, God reached down to me in a pretty dramatic way.

All I know is that preaching "Thou Fool" never converted anyone. I do know that friendship and love may. So, my job description is that I will try to convert you. My love for you, though, will be to make sure that you are free to believe or not believe as you choose without harassment. I won't let anyone beat on you around here, although most of those kinds of Christians have been driven out.

Lisa

 

[Raemon]

Fair enough.

Oh, and a question: Nonchristians often use the word "Fundamentalist X" to describe a person. I've never actually heard a person describe themselves as a Fundamentalist Christian. Do you know if that is a term originally used by Christians or non-believers? And is it something still used at all by Christians today?

 

[synger]

Welcome to CF! There's something for everyone here. It's an amazing, complex place.


Something that helped me a LOT when I joined was to go to my Control Panel at the top of the page, and go to Edit Options. About three screens down you'll see some options to add titles and URLs for the "Custom Navbar". As you find forums on CF that you want to participate in, put their URL as one of your custom navbar URLs. That way, it will show up on the top of your screen each time you visit, and will act as a quick shortcut to the forums you visit the most.

I look forward to getting to know you as you post in the community!

 

[MrFreshdew]

hi Raemon
welcome and have fun

 

[StarryEyes]

Hello, sir and welcome to CF! I'm glad you decided to join us. I trust we will be able to learn somemore things about you, just as you will learn more about us. Not trying to separate all of us, we're still all human beings and we still all have problems..

If you have any questions about the site, perhaps you could find answers in the FAQ section located at the top of the page.

In Him,
Amy

 

[Rut]

 

[flying_kiwifruit]

 

[Lisa0315]

Fair enough.

Oh, and a question: Nonchristians often use the word "Fundamentalist X" to describe a person. I've never actually heard a person describe themselves as a Fundamentalist Christian. Do you know if that is a term originally used by Christians or non-believers? And is it something still used at all by Christians today?

I don't know. I think it was Christians who started using the name, but with people like Falwell and Robertson, abortion bombers, etc, it has taken on a very negative role. Christians do still use it today. There is even a Fundementalist Christian forum here at CF.

Lisa

 

[CFfosterANGEL12]

Hello and welcome to CF!

 

[Lightbearer3]

hi! welcome! I'm also a newbie...wow...you sound like a person God could use!

 

[brachah]

Hello there. I'm an atheist. I've come to this forum for a rather specific reason, one that does not seem explicitly against the rules but that there also doesn't seem to be a forum for. I'm here now looking for advice, both on where I may want to go on this website as well as how to make sure I don't inadvertently break the CoC.

I am twenty years old. I've been close friends with a Christian for the past ten years. Occassionally we've had discussions about our beliefs, occassionally those discussions have taken the form of arguments that never really accomplished anything.

Recently, I've come to realize that he's had a rather inaccurate perception of what it's like to be an atheist. And if he's known me for 10 years and still misunderstands how I think and feel, I bet there are a lot of other Christians out there who do the same.

I've explored Christianity in fair detail, and thought a lot about it. It is definitely something I could never believe in. I'm not here to debate, or to advocate that anyone else adopt my views. But I am here to explain exactly what my views are. Doing so means walking a fine line between debate and discussion. The last time I attempted this at a Christian Forum, I got a very positive response from the other people in the forum but my account was eventually banned. The official reason was that at some point I posted a link to an atheist website (to answer a specific question a Christian had asked), which was against the TOS. I think the real reason was that I made the administrators uncomfortable.

If I accomplish anything here, some people probably will be made uncomfortable. But I think it is worth it, for myself and for the Christians here.

It is worthwhile to me because I believe if this world has any hope for peace, people will need to learn to understand each other, and regard each other as fully human. I know that simply explaining how an atheist thinks will not bring about any sweeping changes, but it is a first step, one that I think I am qualified for.

I believe it will also be worthwhile to you, even if you do not share the same kind of hope I do. I know for most people here, the world's greatest hope is Jesus Christ, and you believe humanity would be best off if everyone could believe in Him.

I don't expect anyone here to convince me of anything. Many have tried before. I don't know if anyone will ever succeed. But I know that any chance I have of finding Jesus will come from Christians who understand who I am.

welcome