America

[Halbhh]

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Romans 8 NIV

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!

Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.

Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?

Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and you will delight in the richest of fare.

Give ear and come to me;
listen, that you may live.

I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.

See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
a ruler and commander of the peoples.

Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations you do not know will come running to you,
because of the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.”

Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.

Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.

Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.”

Isaiah 55 NIV

----------

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 4 NIV

 

[Tanj]

Help an old atheist out and explain what this has to do with American Politics please.

 

[Halbhh]

Help an old atheist out and explain what this has to do with American Politics please.

There isn't a forum section that would be just-right for this imo, but it seems to fit the politics more than the other forum sections --

Politics is many things, but one of them is the struggle of people to realize the goals they have and how they think we should be together as a people, beliefs/views which are so varied, but there are some commonplaces.

Here I'm trying to get at some prominent underlying views/goals/values of America, and where they lead to, and what would be better. That's political of course. It's more political than philosophical, in my view, but it is also philosophical if you like.

 

[Tanj]

There isn't a forum section that would be just-right for this imo,

Possibly true, hard for me to say since I found it incoherent and nonsensical. However I wager of they many places it doesn't belong, an anyone-can-post section devoted to American Politics is one of the wrongest.

Here I'm trying to get at some prominent underlying views/goals/values of America, and where they lead to, and what would be better. That's political of course. It's more political than philosophical, in my view, but it is also philosophical if you like.

Like I said, it made no sense to me at all, might as well have been written in Swahili. You wanted views from people that understand that kind of serious bible-speak, and given that 3/4ths of this board I am not allowed to post in, there has to be somewhere in there better than this.

 

[Halbhh]

If you like, the first song points to why much of America wanted to vote for Trump. People want to 'win'.

The 2nd song is where those values lead to in time. Greed leads to conflict, war. For political reasons, because we are 'great ', etc.

The Romans 8 passage is to remind Christians we look not to here and now for the good day, but in the time to come. Knowing this can affect political choices. Hope slows the march to war, averts war, again in a political way also.

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[2PhiloVoid]

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Romans 8 NIV

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!

Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.

Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?

Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and you will delight in the richest of fare.

Give ear and come to me;
listen, that you may live.

I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.

See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
a ruler and commander of the peoples.

Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations you do not know will come running to you,
because of the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.”

Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.

Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.

Instead of the thornbush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure forever.”

Isaiah 55 NIV

----------

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst.
Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 4 NIV

I love both Peter Gabriel, and especially U2, myself. But the interesting thing about PG's "Big Time" song/video is that when I used to see this on MTV as a kid, I had no understanding whatsoever of what it was he was trying to say in it. Now, I see it, and oh boy! Although I might not agree with all of the nuances of to which he alludes, I think he comes pretty close to the mark ... We in America have some issues we need to deal with.

 

[Halbhh]

I love both Peter Gabriel, and especially U2, myself. But the interesting thing about PG's "Big Time" song/video is that when I used to see this on MTV as a kid, I had no understanding whatsoever of what it was he was trying to say in it. Now, I see it, and oh boy! Although I might not agree with all of the nuances of to which he alludes, I think he comes pretty close to the mark ... We in America have some issues we need to deal with.

That's pretty identical to my own experience -- it was fun back then, and seemed just zany and fun, and now I can understand and better hear the words and can see he's nailing it.

It's like the 1980s (Big Time was from 1986) were like the 1920s, and aren't we also into that same mode lately? The Big Time video has unexpected similarities to a certain style used by our current president, that he's done plenty of. Aren't we reprising the 1980s then in certain ways?

The 2nd video is then where that tends to lead to: Greed leads to more conflicts (Bullet the Blue Sky is from 1987 btw), and it's spooky how the images include the refugees fleeing "into the arms of...America". We can't help but remember we did fund part of the escalation of violence in the 'school of the americas' stuff (we could have instead allowed them to try and find out on their own if 'communism'/socialism works). Now the violence is still ongoing, and the refugees are arriving in mass. I didn't figure this out until the day after I posted it.