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GeratTzedek

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Isn't the instruction pretty much "slaughter them and keep the women for yourselves"?
Absolutely not. We were to keep NOTHING of the Amelakites, certainly not their women.

There is a very famous portion of scripture in which King Saul does battle with the Amelakites, and doesn't kill their livestock. Samuel says to Saul, "What is this bleating I hear?????" Saul had brought back the best livestock back for temple offerings, and the King ALIVE for humiliation. For THIS, G-d removed his holy spirit from king Saul and his right to be king over Israel. "To obey is better than sacrifice."

 
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CaDan

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It is a lot easier to advocate killing people when you call them names first.
 
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GeratTzedek

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exactly, secundulus.

But remember, it wasn't just that Amalek made war against the Jews. Many peoples did that. Amalek has a SPECIAL place in the annuls of evil because of the WAY they fought Israel: the TARGETING OF INNOCENTS.

This is why of the other peoples who attacked Israel it is said they are no more, but that Amalek will be with us in every age.

One of the greatest difficulties we have, myself included, is with G-d ordering the killing of even the women and children among the Amelakites. But we need to look at WHY. It is not to create terror, not to win some political victory, or gain spoils of war, but basically to exterminate a terrorist CULTURE. Even if the men are the ones doing the terrorist acts, women are embracing that culture, AND TRANSMITTING IT TO THEIR CHILDREN FROM THE TIME THEY ARE BORN. If the entire culture is evil, the ONLY way to stop it is to irradicate the entire culture, including those who transmit it, including those too young to kill but who have already been encorporated. That's harsh. So harsh I can't stand it. But it's also true.

I am certainly NOT ready to advocate anything even close to the killing of every man, woman, and child that embraces the culture of the Palestinians. I cannot bring myself to that point. But in the back of my mind, I also am CERTAIN -- the enculturation of Palestinian children to anti-semitism and acceptance to terrorism begins when they are born. They are already infected. Take out any Palestinian geography text, and Israel isn't on the map. Tales of the blood libel of the Jews (the myth that Jews make Matzah with the blood of children) and other lies are still actually passed on to the young! We could kill every terrorist in Palestine, and in 5 years we would have a new crop, because they are being RAISED in this type of culture.

I am ALL FOR the death of every person involved in terrorism, either by military means or capital punishment. I don't morally know what to do about the problem the culture of a large part of the Islamic world which is so infected with the terrorism of the Amelakites. But I can say that so long as the CULTURE continues to exist, there will continue to be little children targeted in day care centers, innocent women on buses, families in pizza parlors.
 
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Ramona

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I met you before the fall of Rome
And I met you to let me take you home
You were wrong
I was right
You said "goodbye,"
I said "goodnight!"

Woo-hoo-hoo, it's all been done!
Woo-hoo-hoo, it's all been done!
Woo-hoo-hoo, it's all been donnnnnnnnnnne before!

~The Barenaked Ladies, <20%
 
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GeratTzedek

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Ah thanks, I can't keep track of all these different tribes. Whose women was it they were ordered to keep?
Amalek was the ONLY people Israel was commanded to destroy utterly. With every other enemy, they were to be fought, but not anhilated.
 
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CaDan

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We regret to inform you tomorrow we will be killed with our families.
 
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GeratTzedek

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Rest assured that it is the former, my dear.



I didn't get the second option from the OP, which seemed pretty Judeocentric to me. For the second example I could provide dozens...for the first, not so much.

Cheers!
It is not a "choice" between two definitions. Both items must be true in order for the metaphor of "Amalek" to fit. Modern day "Amalekites" must BOTH seek the destruction of Israel AND target the weak.
 
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Ramona

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It is not a "choice" between two definitions. Both items must be true in order for the metaphor of "Amalek" to fit. Modern day "Amalekites" must BOTH seek the destruction of Israel AND target the weak.

Oh, well then in that case, I still can't think of anything.
 
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Vene

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It is not a "choice" between two definitions. Both items must be true in order for the metaphor of "Amalek" to fit. Modern day "Amalekites" must BOTH seek the destruction of Israel AND target the weak.
It's so easy to kill people when you strip away their humanity. If you're so concerned about this, why don't you move to Israel and fight?
 
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GeratTzedek

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What makes people think that the solution to violence is more violence?
The solution to violence is not simply more violence. You consider all violence innately wrong. I do not. Violence is a tool. WHY is it being used? And what are its boundaries, aka HOW is it being used? To be violent for the wrong reason is sin. To be violent in a wrong way is sin. But violence itself is not wrong per se.

So... what makes YOU think that all violence can be stopped without violent force used?
 
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GeratTzedek

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War is peace.

Ignorance is strength.

Freedom is slavery.

Murdering women and children is an okay thing to do sometimes.
What useless cliches. We have all read 1984. Or at least we should have. Doesn't mean it applies.
 
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GeratTzedek

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It's so easy to kill people when you strip away their humanity. If you're so concerned about this, why don't you move to Israel and fight?

Strip away their humanity? Not at all. I hold them morally responsible for their acts. That's a LOT more than how I treat animals.

I DO hope to move to Israel some day. It is my understanding that in Israel, EVERY citizen spends some years of their life in defense of their land and people.
 
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CaDan

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It is not a "choice" between two definitions. Both items must be true in order for the metaphor of "Amalek" to fit. Modern day "Amalekites" must BOTH seek the destruction of Israel AND target the weak.

"Israel" is gone--destroyed by the Babylonians and the Greeks and the Romans. There is a modern state now bearing that name, but it has no temple, no king, no prophets, no judges. No sacrifices, no jubilees, no high priest, no ark. It is not "Israel".
 
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Vene

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I want to know why you just jump to violence. I refer you back to your Carter thread. Wouldn't trying to negotiate for peace be a better solution? Or would that not satisfy your blood lust? Kill the Amalek in the name of Yahweh!
 
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Ramona

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I happen to think that my "useless cliches" are pretty pertinent. If God commanded me to murder anyone, I still wouldn't.

I'd refuse simply because it's the humane thing to do, to hell with obedience and "love." Violence might be necessary at times, but murder is not loving. And I should hope than any potential omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity would understand that I'm only trying to further human potential by taking my chosen route, and understand.
 
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