Am I guilty of covetousness?

Von Davidicus · May 2, 2023

I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

disciple Clint · May 2, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

I would modify that definition to be, wanting something more than you want to be a servant of God or loving something more than you love God. In short of you find yourself worshiping your house instead of God it has become a problem.

Robban · May 2, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

No.

Only if what you want belongs to someone already.

That is how wars start.

NBB · May 2, 2023

You can want anything, the problem is when you see your neighbor, and you have envy and want something of his because you are jealous.

Andrewn · May 2, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

This is a bad definition.

If "wanting what you don't have" was a sin, there would have been no human progress. We would not get a better job or buy a new house, a new car, a new fridge, or even renovate our own houses. One would not even get married!

The Ten Commandments say:

Exo 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

Clearly, this is talking about wanting something that belongs to someone else.
In the NT the word translated "covetousness" is Greek "pleonexa." Modern translations render this word "greed."

The Apostle Peter, talking about false preachers, wrote:
2Pe 2:3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words.

Whyayeman · May 2, 2023

Covetousness just means Envy, one of the Seven Deadly sins. If you wanted your neighbour's house (or his ox or his ass, remember?) for yourself - that would be covetness. It is not the same as just having hopes to own good things.

I am not a Christian but I do remember that from primary school.

EverydayBread · Jun 6, 2023

Well, wanting what SOMEONE ELSE has, but it is his/her, not yours.

We want many things, like marriage, children, home to live in, we want to go to meet Jesus... These are not covetousness.

Soyeong · Jun 6, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

It is absurdly broad to say that covetousness is wanting something, especially because there are many things that are good to want. The principle that the 5th and 10th Commandments is based upon in regard to our relationships with our creators and our neighbor is that we are essentially being commanded to love ourselves and to see ourselves as having innate value because of who we are created to be in the image of God. If we see ourselves as having a high value, then we will honor our creators, and if we don't honor our parents, then we are not placing any value on what they created. Likewise, the problem with covetousness is that we are wishing that we were someone else who had those things, so we are not loving or placing any value on ourselves.

It is same issue of jealousy, where someone can be jealous in a negative sense that comes from a place of insecurity and wishing that we were someone else, but God is described as a jealous God, so there is also jealousy in a positive sense that comes from a place of security, where we see ourselves as having high value, and the problem is with others for not recognizing our value when they should have done that.

However, someone can also be a lover of themselves, which is the opposite problem, where they see themselves as having a higher value than others, so the value that we place on ourselves and others needs to be based on the fact that we are all created in the image of God. In order to correctly obey the command to love our neighbors as ourselves, we need to know how we should love ourselves, and that answer to that is that we love ourselves as Jesus loved us, so that is also how we should love our neighbor (John 13:34).

Runningman · Jul 4, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that and there's a point where it's too far. Like we all want money because it's required. The thing is that before we get this money, it actually belongs to someone else before it's ours. However, the nature of an economy is that money is designed to be spent and exchanged, therefore we aren't coveting money under the rules of this system.

A fair and agreed upon trade of money for buying a house, car, or musical instrument isn't coveting.

I think where a line is crossed is when one isn't satisfied with something God has given them or has set in their path and coveting becomes not only a desire for someone else's blessings, but a sincere motivation to try to get those things. It's almost like taking a shortcut and it would probably need to require lying or stealing. Hence why it's a sin.

CoreyD · Jul 11, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

Perhaps the Christian books are just written a bit superficially.
However, as already well explained by others, covetousness is basically greed, but more specifically greed for what others have.
That helps us to put it in proper perspective.

So my neighbor has an SUV. I must have one. I'm covetous.
On the other hand, if I want an SUV, not because my neighbor has one, but because it will come in handy for my needs. Even if my neighbor has one, I am not being covetous.

Strong in Him · Jul 18, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

No.
If someone has a house but is wanting to part with it for a sum of money, you are not coveting it, you are buying it from them.
If someone owned a very expensive house that you wanted, could not afford and was far bigger than you needed; if the only reason for having it was as a status symbol, if you were obsessed with this house and did everything you could to get the owners to leave so that you could have it, that would be coveting.
Like Ahab did with Naboth's vineyard.

FireDragon76 · Jul 23, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

I'm in the final stages of buying a house; a house I did not have before. Did I covet that house?

Some years ago, I purchased a car, as I did not have a running vehicle. Does that count?

Or any of the musical instruments I bought?

That's a ridiculous definition.

Covetuousness just means greed, wanting what isn't due to you. Specifically, wanting other peoples stuff.

Whyayeman · Jul 27, 2023

Read your Bibles, specifically the Ten Commandments, the place where the word is found in that book.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

You are, apparently allowed to just want things. Not, though, if they already belong to your neighbour.

oikonomia · Aug 1, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

That is a mighty terse definition.
Are you sure they said only that much?

Which books gave you that slim definition?

FireDragon76 · Aug 1, 2023

Whyayeman said:
Read your Bibles, specifically the Ten Commandments, the place where the word is found in that book.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

You are, apparently allowed to just want things. Not, though, if they already belong to your neighbour.

The story of David and Bathsheeba is a good example of such coveting, because it lead David to commit murder to take another man's wife as his own, by sending her husband into a dangerous situation knowing he would be killed. That is the real point of the commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself". It's not enough to not just overtly steal from another person, we should also not conspire against their property or wellbeing. That is how I was taught it in Lutheran catechism, anyways.

oikonomia · Aug 1, 2023

Here are some important passages on wanting which do not mean coveting in a unloving way.

Pursue love, and desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. (1 Cor. 15:1)

But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And moreover I show to you a most excellent way. (12:31) [LOVE which is not jealous ch. 13)

That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises. (Heb. 6:12)

contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 3b)

Whyayeman · Aug 1, 2023

oikonomia said:
Here are some important passages on wanting which do not mean coveting in a unloving way.

Pursue love, and desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. (1 Cor. 15:1)

But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And moreover I show to you a most excellent way. (12:31) [LOVE which is not jealous ch. 13)

That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises. (Heb. 6:12)

contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 3b)

That is all well and good, but not really about covetousness. They are invocations to be virtuous.

oikonomia · Aug 2, 2023

Whyayeman said:
That is all well and good, but not really about covetousness. They are invocations to be virtuous.

That is the point.
They are about healthy wanting which is virtuous.

I was showing that the OP's definition of covetousness was too general.
"I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

Von Davidicus · Aug 10, 2023

oikonomia said:
That is a mighty terse definition.
Are you sure they said only that much?

Which books gave you that slim definition?

Sorry for the delay, I had to find one of the books where I read that.

The following is from Pitfalls Of Christian Liberty (pp. 67-68), part of John McArthur's Bible Studies

Someone who covets worships materialism, which can emphasize money and possessions. One can covet a house, a car, clothes, money, stocks, a bigger business, or more of anything. Covetousness is wanting what you don't have. Paul said, "I have learned, in whatever state I am, to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound" (Phil. 4:11-12). May God help us to attain that level of maturity.

(Emphasis mine.)

John Helpher · Sep 23, 2023

Von Davidicus said:
I've been reading a number of Christian books and they've said "Covetousness is wanting what you don't have."

In Luke 12 Jesus says, "Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth". Because of this reference to "abundance of possessions" it's usually interpreted as wanting what you don't have or having a little too much more than you really should have.

But, compare this to what Jesus said about the sins of Sodom and the days of Noah, "Just as it was in the days of Noah and lot, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, and they were all destroyed."

Those are all ordinary, day-to-day activities. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of it. The lesson seems to be that it's not what the activities are, but rather that people become so caught up in caring about these normal things that they stop caring about what God wants.

Am I guilty of covetousness?

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