Am I going to hell

Willy · Jan 21, 2004

Thanks for the sane and informed response, Karl. Unfortunately, Bible quoters often don't know what truly is being said in the Bible. They often impose their own world view or popular religious assumptions on the text. All I want to see happen is that the Bible speaks for itself, although I do recognize that we always place some assumptions on it. The key is to minimize those assumptions.

angeljan · Jan 21, 2004

Karl,

sheol (the Hebrew term

It might refer to Hades (i.e., a temporary place of punishment for the unrighteous dead between death and resurrection) in some contexts. But hell, as I understand it, is properly understood as the second death, the Lake of Fire, the place of eternal punishment. And this is not true of either Sheol or Hades (see Revelation 20:13-15). Thus, the Hebrew term Sheol can, in certain contexts, be used in a manner similar to the NT term Hades (e.g. Job 26:6; etc.),

Angel

angeljan · Jan 21, 2004

Willy Said:
Thanks for the sane and informed response, Karl. Unfortunately, Bible quoters often don't know what truly is being said in the Bible. They often impose their own world view or popular religious assumptions on the text."

No, its the minority group of carnal christians that teach and profess their own world view and do not discern the gospels.

They negate most of the word of God. So we true christians have to come along and explain that they cannot omit most of the gospel .

The True Grace of God raises the standard, NOT lowers it, as some would have you believe.

Grace DOES NOT remove the Righteous decrees of God. The eternal principle of 'You reap what you Sow' is still in effect.

ANGEL

MissFirerose · Jan 21, 2004

angeljan said:
No, its the minority group of carnal christians that teach and profess their own world view and do not discern the gospels.

I seriously beg to differ. Just take a look at history to see how many Christians used the Bible for their own means.

Karl - Liberal Backslider · Jan 22, 2004

You're half right, AngelJen. We are not free of the moral demands of the Law. Not because they are the Law, which we are freed from, but because they are morally right.

Other parts of the Law are different. They are concerned with ritual and procedure under the Old Covenant. We are not bound to avoid pork, be circumcised or to avoid cooking meat with milk. These were specific laws to seperate Israel from the rest of the world, but in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile, and no cause for such marks of seperation. Jesus reduced the complexity of the law (and I agree that in many respects the standard is higher) by condensing it to Love God, and Love your neighbour as yourself. Even in the OT we find the prophets saying that God isn't that impressed with mere keeping of the ritual law, when the important moral commands about justice, mercy and not oppressing the poor are ignored.

By grace we are freed from worrying about the minutiae of the Law, in order to live according to the important principles.

But finally - do be very careful about dividing people into "carnal Christians" and "real Christians" - there is a board rule about implying that other posters are not Christians. Fundamentalists often seem unable to obey it, but it would be nice if you could try.

But beware.

angeljan · Jan 22, 2004

Nice post karl,

I understand what you are trying to convey here, but what some seem to be referring to in regard to Laws are the commandments of God.

There are Christians that teach and profess we not under the Law of God, in doing this, they convey they are saved by grace only, which I agree, but Grace and laws are inseperatable. Real faith shares with others to follow the commandments. Real Faith does not teach or profess its ok not to keep the commandments or Laws, cause we just simply cannot do this.

If one in assuming and professing no matter how we try we cannot keep the laws or commandments of God, then one is teaching they have assured salvation regardless of the requirements of the Lord and or keeping the commandments of God.

The point is Faith or grace does save us, but if we decide to stop following any of the commandments or make no effort on our part to apply them to our Faith then our we still saved. ?

Fundamentalists do not apply to the theologies of most mainstream christian groups of which I belong to the so called "mainstream religions." I believe I am saved by grace but this includes OBEDIENCE,which is faith in action. Obedience is the fruit of faith. Obedience is practical righteousness. It is speaking the truth and doing good works. Obedience is following in the footsteps of the Almighty and His Son. Obedience is the visible expression of our love for the Most High. Obedience is the best and, perhaps, the only tangible evidence that our faith is alive. Obedience is living faith! Without obedience all professions of faith are nothing but self-deluding presumption; because where there is no obedience there really is no faith .

This title of fundametalists teachings apply to unscriptural teachings for example,the assured salvaton groups, Once saved always saved groups and your numerous amounts of new age liberal philosophies sects.
Catholics, Lutherans, episcopalians, etc do not fall under this definitions , since they believe Faith produces Gods commandments and preach to apply and keep them rather then preach and profess no one is able to. Faith does not negate commandment keeping.

When I define a person as a carnal christian is when one rebels against God by continuing to sin, we are also sinning by pride. In effect were telling God that his way is not good enough for us or we cant possibly keep his laws or commandments. Such pride will block Gods favor and blessing from our lives. James cited Proverbs 3:34 and Psalm 138:6 in verse 6, showing how God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Angel Jan

leecappella · Jan 22, 2004

Sophia23 said:
I don't know which forum to put this in, so I decided to just put it here.

Am I going to hell? I am not a Christian, but I have met Christians who have said I am not so I would like to see the range of veiws.

I "feel" the existance of something I consider to be God, I have "seen" in physical and visionary reality (though telling between real and hallucinatory has always been an issue of mine) things that I beleive to be of God and spiritual realms. I largly develop my serious religious opinons from experience. I have never met Christ. I have seen and felt demonic presences aswell but to a far lesser degree (thank God! because ...scary!). I feel that I have a close and positive realtionship with God, but it is not well defined linguisticly, I couldn't talk about it or explain it really. I find it hard to beleive the God that I know would condem people to eternity in hell.

Hell is a very big issue for me, I have an ongoing morbid fascination with the hells of many beleif systems. Eternity is also an issue, I do not beleive that spirit is eternal, perhaps in the sense that matter and energy are eternal - some kind of spiritual matter might be, but spirit in the sense of "my" or something, I am less inclined to beleive.

I am a pan-entheist. I beleive the purpose of creation is to manifest God (who is already manifest because time is only liner from a normal consiousness perspective).

me: Truly, I belive only God can answer that one for you. Only God!

TehRoxxor · Jan 24, 2004

As much as it hurts me to say this you are very likely to be hellbound at the moment.
I know how cruel and ridiculus this may sound, but I feel it to be the truth

Yes, I will see you there.

MissFirerose · Jan 27, 2004

TehRoxxor said:
Yes, I will see you there.

Nothing says "Loving Christian" like a good old fashioned "Hell Bound Speech", eh?

banjo bandit · Jan 28, 2004

The Bible says that we cannot save ourselves.Only Jesus can do that.If we could save ourselves then there would have been no reason for Jesus to have died.
I have a question for those that think we are saved by something other than grace.What if I was on my deathbed and accepted Jesus..but yet never had a chance to do something to "further" His kingdom? Would my inability to
"obey" His commandments negate my salvation? I say no! What say you?

WOFFER · Jan 28, 2004

MissFirerose said:
Nothing says "Loving Christian" like a good old fashioned "Hell Bound Speech", eh?

I prefer to focus on the answer, not the problem. Jesus is the answer. Most sinners know that they are sinners.

Daniel 7 · Jan 28, 2004

Sophia, Hell is the grave only;i can prove if need be;ALL MANKIND WILL BE SAVED.However those saved now on earth through JESUS CHRIST WILL BE SAVED AND SPEND THE 1000 YEARS WITH HIM WHEN HE RETURNS.All others in their own turn.So have faith in Christ and be with him when you die;or,believe that God will have all men to be saved and come in later.Ileave you with this.Love your neighbor as yourself;and give JESUS CHRIST a chance.He loves you first; no man would do that without getting to know you.But he did!God Bless

MissFirerose · Jan 28, 2004

WOFFER said:
I prefer to focus on the answer, not the problem. Jesus is the answer. Most sinners know that they are sinners.

See how much someone will listen to you when you greet them by saing, "Hi, you're going to hell."

Daniel 7 · Jan 28, 2004

God would that all mankind be saved.I believe that and can prove that it shall come to past.Therefore no one will go to hell and burn forever;because hell is the grave.Gehenna is where the fire is and it is an aeonious fire. That does not mean forever,but ages.God bound all men over to sin so he could [may] save all men. Salvation comes from- by- and to God. We can do nothing to recieve salvation. So you see - you have the same chance as me to be saved.But those who are first will be last and those last will be first.EITHER BE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF christ now and spend the 1000 year mill. with him ,or be saved later[ each in his own time];recieve his unending MERCY AFTER JUDGEMENT;AND[ALL WILL RETURN to GOD that came from GOD.]which means the only difference between you and me is God has already lead me down his righteous pathto salvation and your still waiting.But your time will come;soon enough.Wouldnt you like for the lord to find you ready?So i say to you;Love your neighbor as yourself and accept JESUS as your savior now ;rather than later.!!God Bless

leecappella · Jan 29, 2004

banjo bandit said:
The Bible says that we cannot save ourselves.Only Jesus can do that.If we could save ourselves then there would have been no reason for Jesus to have died.
I have a question for those that think we are saved by something other than grace.What if I was on my deathbed and accepted Jesus..but yet never had a chance to do something to "further" His kingdom? Would my inability to
"obey" His commandments negate my salvation? I say no! What say you?

me: I agree with your "no" answer, banjo. Look at the man who died on the cross next to Jesus. He got saved. God meets you wherever you at, even if it's on the deathbed And, unlike humans, He will not compare you to others.

rnmomof7 · Jan 29, 2004

MissFirerose said:
See how much someone will listen to you when you greet them by saing, "Hi, you're going to hell."

Have you ever read "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"? It was written by Jonathan Edwards.

It is a sermon that tells the listeners the horror of being lost.

That sermon that is so pointed and difficult to read is credited with bringing the great awaking to America .

The truth is no one really believes they are a sinner in need of salvation . Most do not use God and His holiness as a measure..they use their sinful neighbors.."I am not as bad as so&so,I do not cheat on my wife."

Our measure can only be God

We can not ask God for mercy if we do not think we are all that bad.

Too often now sin is presented as a "mistake" (like wearing the wrong color shoes with your brown suit.)

Sin is sin and all sin is an abomination to God. until we see that we will never repent and believe

MissFirerose · Jan 29, 2004

rnmomof7 said:
Have you ever read "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"? It was written by Jonathan Edwards.

It is a sermon that tells the listeners the horror of being lost.

That sermon that is so pointed and difficult to read is credited with bringing the great awaking to America .

The truth is no one really believes they are a sinner in need of salvation . Most do not use God and His holiness as a measure..they use their sinful neighbors.."I am not as bad as so&so,I do not cheat on my wife."

Our measure can only be God

We can not ask God for mercy if we do not think we are all that bad.

Too often now sin is presented as a "mistake" (like wearing the wrong color shoes with your brown suit.)

Sin is sin and all sin is an abomination to God. until we see that we will never repent and believe

If people aways took the additude that something different is always sin, bi racial marriages might still be illegal in the south. Obviously, such a thing is not a sin, it was, however, different in that time, and people fear what is different.

jakegroen · Feb 8, 2004

Woaah are you guys saying that hells real, my parents just said I'd have to live in New Jersey.

Polycarp1 · Feb 8, 2004

jakegroen said:
Woaah are you guys saying that hells real, my parents just said I'd have to live in New Jersey.

ROFL!!!

Jake, welcome to CF! Are you by any chance related to Elizabeth, who married Rudy? They're long-distance friends of mine, and you share her former last name and live in the same state as she did.

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