Am I a moderate Christian?

[Godlovesmetwo]

Not a very good Christian? yes that's me. maybe they should have a subforum called "Mediocre Christians" That would suit me perfectly.
But those of us who see ourselves towards the centre of both religion and politics. Are we secretly feeling very proud of ourselves? For not going out on a limb and being more zealous? More dogmatic? More sure and certain? Takes more courage to have strong opinions doesn't it?
Who wants to be a wishy washy Christian? "I like this but I don't like that" Christians. As if we are going to a restaurant instead of Church.
Anyway. I need more motivation. We all do don't we. Having faith is hard work. All these different doctrines and theologies give me a headache to be honest. we cant be all right. We cant be all wrong surely.
And as for "the truth". That has become the most hackneyed word in Christianity. If we are going to kill each other in order to stand for the "truth" that sounds like insanity to me. Is "the truth" so important? Yes I hear you say. yes of course.

 

[Unsavable]

Hi GodLovesmeToo,

I am probably the most wrong person to answer your question as I am probably the most broken believer ever.

We are broken people in a broken world. It is a fine line and a difficult balancing act between being supportive of each other in our fallen states and being supportive of sin. Any person can easily be pulled to either extreme where we fail to meet the high standard which is the Christian mandate.

This standard can become very messy when we enter the dark world of politics where positions rarely reflect true motivations.

What is the right balance between the responsibility of the state vs freedom from the state? What is the right balance between enforcing the law and a police state? What is the right balance between war for just cause and war for unjust cause and who can really judge without enough information to really make the call?

There are some things that are pretty obvious. It is difficult to justify abortion from a Christian perspective. Others, like the death penalty, are more complicated.

I very recently came here for answers to some serious contradictions in my own life which I posted on my introduction. Chances are nobody will have the answers. We just have to do the best we can.

I would recommend this, don't be swayed by political team sports. Decide where your priorities are, guided by biblical wisdom, then judge all things equally according to those priorities.

 

[Michie]

Not a very good Christian? yes that's me. maybe they should have a subforum called "Mediocre Christians" That would suit me perfectly.
But those of us who see ourselves towards the centre of both religion and politics. Are we secretly feeling very proud of ourselves? For not going out on a limb and being more zealous? More dogmatic? More sure and certain? Takes more courage to have strong opinions doesn't it?
Who wants to be a wishy washy Christian? "I like this but I don't like that" Christians. As if we are going to a restaurant instead of Church.
Anyway. I need more motivation. We all do don't we. Having faith is hard work. All these different doctrines and theologies give me a headache to be honest. we cant be all right. We cant be all wrong surely.
And as for "the truth". That has become the most hackneyed word in Christianity. If we are going to kill each other in order to stand for the "truth" that sounds like insanity to me. Is "the truth" so important? Yes I hear you say. yes of course.

You used to go by BettercallPaul didn’t you? Where you been??

 

[Albion]

Not a very good Christian? yes that's me. maybe they should have a subforum called "Mediocre Christians" That would suit me perfectly.
But those of us who see ourselves towards the centre of both religion and politics. Are we secretly feeling very proud of ourselves? For not going out on a limb and being more zealous? More dogmatic? More sure and certain? Takes more courage to have strong opinions doesn't it?
Who wants to be a wishy washy Christian? "I like this but I don't like that" Christians. As if we are going to a restaurant instead of Church.
Anyway. I need more motivation. We all do don't we. Having faith is hard work. All these different doctrines and theologies give me a headache to be honest. we cant be all right. We cant be all wrong surely.
And as for "the truth". That has become the most hackneyed word in Christianity. If we are going to kill each other in order to stand for the "truth" that sounds like insanity to me. Is "the truth" so important? Yes I hear you say. yes of course.

The meaning of the term as used in this forum is not "lukewarm Christians" or "middle of the road Christians."

The reference is to people willing to moderate or temper their posts when discussing issues.

Many of the other forums are filled with accusations, putdowns, and the like, with liberals pitted against conservatives, Catholics against Protestants, and so on. The additional term "Bridge Builders" was added to the original name of the forum in hopes of making the meaning of "Moderate" clearer.

 

[Ricky M]

.

 

[Deus Vult!]

Not a very good Christian? yes that's me. maybe they should have a subforum called "Mediocre Christians" That would suit me perfectly.
But those of us who see ourselves towards the centre of both religion and politics. Are we secretly feeling very proud of ourselves? For not going out on a limb and being more zealous? More dogmatic? More sure and certain? Takes more courage to have strong opinions doesn't it?
Who wants to be a wishy washy Christian? "I like this but I don't like that" Christians. As if we are going to a restaurant instead of Church.
Anyway. I need more motivation. We all do don't we. Having faith is hard work. All these different doctrines and theologies give me a headache to be honest. we cant be all right. We cant be all wrong surely.
And as for "the truth". That has become the most hackneyed word in Christianity. If we are going to kill each other in order to stand for the "truth" that sounds like insanity to me. Is "the truth" so important? Yes I hear you say. yes of course.

I used to have the exact same headache... Throbbing headaches, as I sifted through hundreds of heretical sects of Christianity all throughout history to our present day... The truth is that our Lord knew this would occur. He said so many times over. The apostles addressed and refuted various men and heretical sects that were misleading the faithful while they were still alive.
The marks of the Church in the Nicene creed are four: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
This ought to be a big hint at where to find the Excedrin for your headache...
God is not the Author of confusion.
If anymore questions feel free.

 

[Albion]

I used to have the exact same headache... Throbbing headaches, as I sifted through hundreds of heretical sects of Christianity all throughout history to our present day... The truth is that our Lord knew this would occur. He said so many times over. The apostles addressed and refuted various men and heretical sects that were misleading the faithful while they were still alive.
The marks of the Church in the Nicene creed are four: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
This ought to be a big hint at where to find the Excedrin for your headache...
God is not the Author of confusion.
If anymore questions feel free.

I also know denominations that chose to include the words Holy, Apostolic, and True in their legal names. Is any of them, therefore, the one and only denomination Christ approves of?

 

[Deus Vult!]

I also know denominations that chose to include the words Holy, Apostolic, and True in their legal names. Is any of them, therefore, the one and only denomination Christ approves of?

Catholic simply means "according to the whole" or "universal".
Greek: "Kata"="according to", and "holos"="whole".
The four marks of the Church all compliment and reinforce each other...
See this quote from St.Ignatius of Antioch in his letter to the Smyrnaeans. Ch. 8
"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid."

This letter is dated even earlier the the book of Revelation, some scholars date this letter within 5 years of the "Gospel according to John". Ignatius was the 2nd presiding Bishop of the first city where the name "Christian" was first spoke. He received the episcopate in Antioch directly from St. Peter. So here the entire context on just what makes the Church Catholic seems to be explicitly tied in to Apostolic succession. The laying on of the hands by the early presbyters and bishops. There is no validity to any claim from a church - their name itself obviously included - that cannot firstly claim and prove apostolic succession.
The "Catholicism" of the Church is her mission that all Christians everywhere believe the same Apostolic Gospel. Without divisions (Denominations).

1 Corinthians 1:10-17
10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree. Let there be no divisions among you, but rather be perfectly united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren” (1 Corinthians 1:10-11).

12 I mean that each one of you says, 'I follow Paul,' or 'I follow Apollos,' or 'I follow Cephas,' or 'I follow Christ.' 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:12-13).

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

You used to go by BettercallPaul didn’t you? Where you been??

Hi Michie.
Im not supposed to be talking to you. I don't have privileges to go on OBOB or TLT yet for some reason. But that's ok....

 

[Michie]

The Lord’s Table has been closed.

Hi Michie.
Im not supposed to be talking to you. I don't have privileges to go on OBOB or TLT yet for some reason. But that's ok....

 

[Deus Vult!]

Hi GodLovesmeToo,

I am probably the most wrong person to answer your question as I am probably the most broken believer ever.

We are broken people in a broken world. It is a fine line and a difficult balancing act between being supportive of each other in our fallen states and being supportive of sin. Any person can easily be pulled to either extreme where we fail to meet the high standard which is the Christian mandate.

This standard can become very messy when we enter the dark world of politics where positions rarely reflect true motivations.

What is the right balance between the responsibility of the state vs freedom from the state? What is the right balance between enforcing the law and a police state? What is the right balance between war for just cause and war for unjust cause and who can really judge without enough information to really make the call?

There are some things that are pretty obvious. It is difficult to justify abortion from a Christian perspective. Others, like the death penalty, are more complicated.

I very recently came here for answers to some serious contradictions in my own life which I posted on my introduction. Chances are nobody will have the answers. We just have to do the best we can.

I would recommend this, don't be swayed by political team sports. Decide where your priorities are, guided by biblical wisdom, then judge all things equally according to those priorities.

No offense but it sounds like you are offering advice that is all together contradictory. You point to the Bible but the Bible does not interpret itself... You point to the Bible as your point of reference but cannot see that even the first Christians had no ability to do the same... You point to the Bible but your Bible is missing several key books in the Old Testament. You point to the New Testament but reject the Church that decided what the New Testament is... If you were to read the epistle of St.Jude you would read of a warning concerning the "Rebellion of Korah" but have no idea what that even means. This is because you do not accept Jesus as He is, you do not accept His Body on the Earth - the Church - the way she is... This is not meant to be an attack, in all honesty I do not mean to offend. I am writing this gently, if I were to be speaking with you face to face it would be soft spoken.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The truth is

sorry but how many of us love starting sentences like that...…...
then proudly think we've joined the right truth team.
Im thinking now that "the truth" and the search for it is the problem. Now before I get pummelled for suggesting Jesus Christ is NOT the truth, I do have faith of some sort. Jesus Christ IS the truth. Yes that sounds right to me. But our search for Him is easily waylaid by debates over doctrines and authority.
One reason I cling to a Catholic truth of sorts is that I love the Spanish mystics. Maybe we should cling to what we love. Theresa, John of the Cross and Ignatius. Their writings FEEL closer to the truth than many parts of the Bible. What a classic is The Interior Castle. if it only had as much credibility as The Bible. Those spiritual; exercises of Ignatius are remarkably pragmatic and useful for discernment. Just helping us choose the right career.
to be continued

 

[Unsavable]

No offense but it sounds like you are offering advice that is all together contradictory. You point to the Bible but the Bible does not interpret itself... You point to the Bible as your point of reference but cannot see that even the first Christians had no ability to do the same... You point to the Bible but your Bible is missing several key books in the Old Testament. You point to the New Testament but reject the Church that decided what the New Testament is... If you were to read the epistle of St.Jude you would read of a warning concerning the "Rebellion of Korah" but have no idea what that even means. This is because you do not accept Jesus as He is, you do not accept His Body on the Earth - the Church - the way she is... This is not meant to be an attack, in all honesty I do not mean to offend. I am writing this gently, if I were to be speaking with you face to face it would be soft spoken.

You wont offend me. I am often wrong about a lot of things and open to corrections and suggestions. I am having trouble understanding how your comments relate to my post. Are you suggesting that a person should not be informed by the bible or use it as a way to measure how ones own wisdom aligns to it?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

feeling versus rational logical discussion. The latter will win every time. we really value "our marbles". Yet faith requires more than brain power. Not that I am a fan of overemotionalism. Those weeping "Jesus I love you so much" people are too extreme.
Yet emotion is important. because it gives us motivation. Impetus to continue the long hard journey of faith. I cling to a faith. I never want that cold austere version of faith either. They might win doctrinal debates but they don't win me.

 

[Unsavable]

feeling versus rational logical discussion. The latter will win every time. we really value "our marbles". Yet faith requires more than brain power. Not that I am a fan of overemotionalism. Those weeping "Jesus I love you so much" people are too extreme.
Yet emotion is important. because it gives us motivation. Impetus to continue the long hard journey of faith. I cling to a faith. I never want that cold austere version of faith either. They might win doctrinal debates but they don't win me.

My grandfather used to say "balance in all things." He was very wise.

 

[Deus Vult!]

sorry but how many of us love starting sentences like that...…...
then proudly think we've joined the right truth team.
Im thinking now that "the truth" and the search for it is the problem. Now before I get pummelled for suggesting Jesus Christ is NOT the truth, I do have faith of some sort. Jesus Christ IS the truth. Yes that sounds right to me. But our search for Him is easily waylaid by debates over doctrines and authority.
One reason I cling to a Catholic truth of sorts is that I love the Spanish mystics. Maybe we should cling to what we love. Theresa, John of the Cross and Ignatius. Their writings FEEL closer to the truth than many parts of the Bible. What a classic is The Interior Castle. if it only had as much credibility as The Bible. Those spiritual; exercises of Ignatius are remarkably pragmatic and useful for discernment. Just helping us choose the right career.
to be continued

Can you show me where I said "the truth is" so I know what exactly what you are referencing. Thank you.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The truth is that our Lord knew this would occur.

as requested

 

[Deus Vult!]

You wont offend me. I am often wrong about a lot of things and open to corrections and suggestions. I am having trouble understanding how your comments relate to my post. Are you suggesting that a person should not be informed by the bible or use it as a way to measure how ones own wisdom aligns to it?

No, I am saying that informing oneself by the bible, or using it as a way to measure how ones own wisdom aligns to it - alone - apart from the Church inevitably leads to a myriad of error and heresy. That is what I am saying.
I referenced the earliest Christians because to them the Scripture was to be found in the Church, and the Church is found in the Scripture. There is just a fundamentally flawed approach to the Sacred Scripture outside of the Church is all I am asserting.
Again, this is said in humility, not seeking to win a debate or to be right.

 

[Deus Vult!]

as requested

Well then, the truth is you knew that I had begun a sentence with "the truth is".

 

[Unsavable]

No, I am saying that informing oneself by the bible, or using it as a way to measure how ones own wisdom aligns to it - alone - apart from the Church inevitably leads to a myriad of error and heresy. That is what I am saying.
I referenced the earliest Christians because to them the Scripture was to be found in the Church, and the Church is found in the Scripture. There is just a fundamentally flawed approach to the Sacred Scripture outside of the Church is all I am asserting.
Again, this is said in humility, not seeking to win a debate or to be right.

So to extrapolate, the early church was often found in peoples homes where they gathered to worship. They were often off target as we can see from Corinthians but the point was community and learning from, and sharing with each other. So your point is that congregating with other Christians to correct each other is as important as reading the bible.