Alternatives to "The Purpose Driven Life"?

good4u · Aug 8, 2006

jubilationtcornpone said:
There've been a great many discussions here about the problems with The Purpose Driven Life--its weak gospel presentation, its poor exegesis and its reckless theology.

To my mind, this is a rather silly question; after all, nobody is obligated to use a book with poor theology, simply because we don't have a better one at our fingertips. Nevertheless, I thought I'd ask... Can anyone recommend a book with similar scope, but that tackles Rick Warren's subject matter in a more Scriptural and theologically sound manner?

I think these criticisms of Warren's book is unfair. The author's intention is not necessarily for a solid believer, but a "tool" for outreach to unbelievers. Even the Apostle Paul did not start out with deep theology to his new converts, but the simple teaching of the gospel and how it changes lives. THEN you grow from there to a purposed driven life to follow God as He directs.

Give unbelievers a chance, wouldn't you want one?

good4u · Aug 8, 2006

BTW, John Piper's, Desiring God is a great book as an alternative if you are a purist about theology. I just read a commentary from Piper regarding the understanding of what faith is and enjoyed it tremendously. Easy to understand in laymen's terms yet solid theology.

jubilationtcornpone · Aug 8, 2006

good4u said:
I think these criticisms of Warren's book is unfair. The author's intention is not necessarily for a solid believer, but a "tool" for outreach to unbelievers.

If that were the case, then Warren would have offered a thorough presentation of the Gospel. Instead, over the course of his 334-page book, he barely touches on the Gospel at all -- and when he does mention the Gospel, he gives it exceedingly light treatment. He barely mentions repentance, and he fails to mention that our sins have condemned us to hell and that we can never attain salvation through our own works or holiness.

With all due respect, that does not sound like an "outreach to unbelievers."

Even the Apostle Paul did not start out with deep theology to his new converts, but the simple teaching of the gospel and how it changes lives. THEN you grow from there to a purposed driven life to follow God as He directs.

The problem isn't that Warren's theology is shallow. Rather, the problem is that his teachings are unscriptural and wrong. The Apostle Paul did not offer deep theology to new converts, but neither did he distort God's Word.

good4u · Aug 8, 2006

Apparently, evangelism is not your strong suit. Do you have friends who are unbelievers? I am not here to defend Warren. However, I do understand where he is coming from which you don't apparently. I told you of an alternative, or do you just wanna disagree about Warren.

If your looking for an argument, I will not participate.

GrinningDwarf · Aug 8, 2006

I teach the adult Sunday school class at our tiny country non-denominational church, and last year our pastor asked me to teach The Purpose Driven Life. At first I balked about it, thinking anything that popular with the masses has to be fairly shallow, but our pastor asked me to take a look at the book, and so I did.

The opening line of Warren's book made it salvagable to use in the class. True, a lot of the theology in the book is watered down. However, the opening line of the book is "It's not about you." I referenced back to that throughout the book, and I think members of our class grew through that class.

jubilationtcornpone · Aug 8, 2006

Contrary to your insinuation, I do not just "wanna disagree with Warren." Rather, I cited articles that demonstrate how his gospel presentation (as well as the rest of the theology in his book) is inaccurate. This topic has likewise been discussed extensively on this forum.

And again, I ask... if his book was only intended for non-believers, then why does he only mention the Gospel in passing? This alone suggests that his book was not meant specifically as an outreach to non-believers.

It's interesting. I've found that when the subject of sloppy TPDL theology comes up, half of its defenders say, "That's because it's meant for non-believers!" whereas the other half says, "So what if its Gospel isn't very accurate? It's meant primarily for Christians anyway, and wasn't meant for non-believers!"

Of course, all of this is ultimately irrelevant. The book should be accurate, regardless of whether it was meant for Christians or non-Christians. One does not excuse unscriptural teachings on the grounds that the book was meant for Group A or Group B anyway.

good4u · Aug 8, 2006

That's right Grinning...God can and DOES use anything He desires to reach people. What the OP does not understand is that God reaches out to people where they are, not the other way around. Most people are not interested in theology. I could not pass a theology class if I tried. But I am interested in a relationship with God and if that starts me out on a journey to that relationship, then right theology will eventually come.

ScottBot · Aug 8, 2006

I wonder if God has any big evangelical plans for Hammas or Hezbullah?

jubilationtcornpone · Aug 8, 2006

good4u said:
That's right Grinning...God can and DOES use anything He desires to reach people.

This does not, however, mean that ANY means of reaching people is acceptable. That's like saying that a physician would use any means he desires to heal people, therefore, any form of drug, surgery or pseudomysticism is acceptable.

Indeed, what did the Apostle Paul say?

"But if even we, or an angel from heaven, declare to gospel to you, different from what we have declared to you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6)

Paul most certainly did NOT say "God can use whatever technique he wants, so don't get hung up on accuracy!"

What the OP does not understand is that God reaches out to people where they are, not the other way around.

"Reaching people where they are" does not justify false teaching.

Most people are not interested in theology. I could not pass a theology class if I tried. But I am interested in a relationship with God and if that starts me out on a journey to that relationship, then right theology will eventually come.

That is EXACTLY how Satan wants people to think! Nowhere in the Bible will you see Jesus, Peter or Paul commending such a viewpoint.

The world is filled with people who have landed in cults and false religions, simply because they "started out on a journey," thinking that "right theology will eventually come."

BigNorsk · Aug 8, 2006

Speaking the Gospel Today: A Theology for Evangelism by Robert Kolb lays out the doctrines of evangelism very well.

What people would criticise it for is it is definitely not a follow the recipe cookbook for evangelism where it breaks things down into step 1- step 2- and so on. It is written and it sounds like it is written by a guy who has spent his life in a university setting. It is not a coffee-table easy read.

I actually don't know, and I've been looking, of a book written at the level of Purpose Driven Life (meaning easy read for the masses) that accurately lays out evangelism.

I am comforted that even with often horrible theology that the Word of God is so powerful that it succeeds despite our often terrible presentations.

One problem is that we tend to rate success in very human terms. How many show up next week for services. Is a pretty common one. Well, I could hold a Friday night service with a big sign outside saying "Free Beer", put a rock band up front playing away and probably pack people in. However, I would have trouble saying that is the way to do evangelism.

At some point, the sinner needs to hear the law so that the Holy Spirit can work on him and convict him and convince him that he needs a savior. This step seems to be pretty well missing from a lot of "how to evangelize" books. Then the Gospel needs to be presented to offer the person release from their sins. Many try only Gospel since the reception of the Law is often not a warm one. This works-for those convicted already. But does nothing for the person unaware of their need of a Savior.

So Law and Gospel. The weakness seems to me to be in the Law. Common mistakes are mixing the Law and Gospel together and calling them both the Gospel. Picking out certain groups of sinners to throw the Law at while almost presuming anyone not in those groups is living a holy life. Or never presenting the Law so that the churches become a social feel good place for fellowship and fun, instead of a place to seek and worship God.

Like I say the Law presentation seems to be the weakness in many programs, we just don't like to tell people they are condemned sinners on the fast track to eternal damnation.

Marv

Bill777 · Aug 8, 2006

I still think that the biggest problem with Rick Warren's book is that he cares about man finding his purpose. Guess what God couldn't care less if we find our purpose in life or not. Having a purposeful life will get nobody into heaven.

Warren's gospel seems to be one of purpose. He teaches that man's greatest problem is purposelessness and this book will remedy that situation by helping the reader discover his purpose. Needless to say, this is not the gospel as taught by the Bible. The Bible teaches that man's greatest problem is that he is a sinner and is alienated from God. Purposelessness is insignificant compared to the possibility of an eternity in hell.

Entertaining_Angels · Aug 8, 2006

I have to agree this is not a good book for 'beginners'. It starts off Christianity on the wrong foot

"It's not about me, it's gotta be about Him"

Tonks · Aug 8, 2006

Alternative to the PDL? I'd have to go with Summa Theologica....

Adammi · Aug 8, 2006

Guess what God couldn't care less if we find our purpose in life or not. Having a purposeful life will get nobody into heaven.

Rick Warren wouldn't disagree with that statement (and neither do I). You wanna know why?
We go to heaven simply by the grace of God, finding outr purpose has nothing to do with that, but the Kingdom of God is at hand! It's already here. You can start living an excellent purposeful life, right here, right now. Before you go to heaven.
You don't have to wait for the pie in the sky, you can have some ham where you am. It's funny, but true.

Bill777 · Aug 8, 2006

Upon_This_Rock said:
Rick Warren wouldn't disagree with that statement (and neither do I). You wanna know why?
We go to heaven simply by the grace of God, finding outr purpose has nothing to do with that, but the Kingdom of God is at hand! It's already here. You can start living an excellent purposeful life, right here, right now. Before you go to heaven.
You don't have to wait for the pie in the sky, you can have some ham where you am. It's funny, but true.

OK, fair enough. My only question is where does the bible tell us that we have to find our purpose. Nowhere. So why should churches emphasize that concept at all then. Makes no sense to me.

seekingpurity047 · Aug 8, 2006

Tonks said:
Alternative to the PDL? I'd have to go with Summa Theologica....

LOL... yah, if someone wants to read an encyclopedia!

GrinningDwarf · Aug 9, 2006

Bill777 said:
OK, fair enough. My only question is where does the bible tell us that we have to find our purpose. Nowhere. So why should churches emphasize that concept at all then. Makes no sense to me.

Sooooooo.....are you saying that our lives have no purpose? I don't imagine you are...just having a knee-jerk reaction to what has been perceived as a man-centered gospel.

To answer your question "Where does the Bible tell us we have to find our purpose?", try Corinthians 10:31:

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Which is exactly where Rick Warren's book directs it's readers. And is also the answer to the first question of the Westminster Shorter Catechism

Q1: What is the chief end of man?
A1: Man's chief end is to glorify God, and enjoy Him forever.

GrinningDwarf · Aug 9, 2006

How many critics of Rick's Warren's book The Purpose Driven Life have actually read it? I was just leafing through the copy I used in our adult Sunday school class to refresh myself on just what it said. My copy is marked up fairly well, with emphasis on some places and skipping others; margin notes refering to outside sources to supplement or expand on what Warren says, or referring back to points Warren made several chapters earlier. You will find highlights on sections like:

...you cannot arrive at your life's purpose by starting with a focus on yourself. You must begin with God, your Creator. You exist only because He wills you to exist. You were made by God and for God--and until you understand that, life will never make sense...

Do any of the critics seriously have a problem with that?!

Warren comes up with five purpose's for our lives:

1. We were planned for God's pleasure. Bringing pleasure to God is called 'worship'...which is far more than music. Worship is not for your benefit, and it's not part of your life; it is your life.

2. We were formed for God's family...which means fellowship connected into a local church.

3. We were created to become like Christ...or sanctification. We grow by abiding in God's word, by persevering in troubles, and there are no shortcuts to maturity!

4. We were shaped for serving God according to the gifts and callings He has given every one of who are called His children.

5. We were made for a mission, which is spreading the Gospel!!

Do any of the critics seriously have a problem with any of these five points?!

Any teacher who can't work with this framework to use PDL for the glory of God's kingdom just ain't trying!! I'd say the book is geared towards new believers...those who have made a committment but need grounding in what Christianity means now for them.

Sure...there are deeper works out there. Try biting off some of Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, or Martin Luther's Bondage of the Will. I just ordered John Owen's The Death of Death in the Death of Christ from CBD. I should get it in time to start this weekend!! But just because everything out there isn't that deep, doesn't mean it's bad.

jubilationtcornpone · Aug 9, 2006

GrinningDwarf said:
How many critics of Rick's Warren's book The Purpose Driven Life have actually read it?

I most certainly have. That is exactly why I am appalled at some of the things that it teaches.

Where does the Bible say, for example, that God always uses 40 days to prepare someone spiritually? And where does it say that God used 40 days of rain to prepare Noah? (Noah was a preacher and a spiritual leader long before the flood came!) And where does it say that God used 40 days of Goliath's boasting to prepare David? (David didn't even know about Goliath until the end of those 40 days!)

Do any of the critics seriously have a problem with that?!

Warren comes up with five purpose's for our lives:

For the sake of argument, let us assume that there is nothing doctrinally wrong with the five purposes that you quoted. How does this show that the book contains no spiritual problems?

Quite simply, it does not. Your example is like opening a suitcase filled with green paper, pulling out five genuine fifty dollar bills, and then concluding that the suitcase must be filled with nothing but money. It simply doesn't follow. Even if there are five genuine 50 dollar bills there, it doesn't mean that everything in the suitcase is genuine legal tender.

So it is with Warren's book. You can pick out a few things that are theologically correct, but this does not mean that the book itself is A-OK. Nor does it mean that we can dismiss any problems with the book as irrelevant or minor.

I always find it interesting to see how Warren's supporters seldom use Scripture to defend his book. Instead, their defenses usually amount to saying "But it still makes some good points" or "You're just jealous" or "Look at how many copies it's sold!" Heck, as I pointed out earlier, his defenders can't even agree on whether the book was written with believers or non-believers in mind.

Here are just a few articles that discuss the serious doctrinal problems within Warren's book:

http://www.crossroad.to/HisWord/verses/topics/driven.htm
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/warren.htm http://www.inplainsite.org/html/purpose_driven_hostage.html
http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/analysis_of_purpose_driven_life.htm
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven.htm
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/rick_warren_purpose_driven_2.htm
http://www.purposeverses.com/default.aspx http://www.cicministry.org/berean.php http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?795
http://berean-cogitations.blogspot.com/2006/03/did-god-really-use-40-days-of-rain-to.html
http://purposejourney.blogspot.com
http://www.sacredsandwich.com/purposelie.htm http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/print_articles.asp?ID=112
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue80.htm http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/15_principal_errors_of_purpose_driven_life.htm
http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/articles/read_articles.asp?id=1
http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/articles/read_articles.asp?id=2
http://www.biblebb.com/files/purpose.htm
http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc03-148.htm http://www.biblebb.com/files/pdl.htm
http://www.biblebb.com/files/PDLreview-SB.htm http://www.biblebb.com/files/pdlflaw.htm http://www.biblebb.com/files/gathw.htm
http://www.challies.com/archives/000124.php
http://www.9marks.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID598014%7CCIID1917906,00.html
http://www.challies.com/archives/000121.php http://www.challies.com/archives/000542.php
http://www.erwm.com/RWFirewall1.htm
http://www.erwm.com/RWFirewall2.htm http://www.erwm.com/RWFirewall3.htm
http://www.erwm.com/RWFirewall4.htm

Adammi · Aug 9, 2006

Bill777 said:
OK, fair enough. My only question is where does the bible tell us that we have to find our purpose. Nowhere. So why should churches emphasize that concept at all then. Makes no sense to me.

Does the Bible emphasize not finding your purpose?

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