All Roads but One leads to Rome

Joe Guth · Mar 7, 2014

Recently, a Televangelist had a large gathering. His words started out something like this, "You gonna talk about tonight for a long ..."

POPE TO COPELAND: CATHOLICS AND CHARISMATICS MUST SPIRITUALLY UNITE - YouTube

What do you think about the choice of the TV personality? I especially am interested in Non-RCC posters who are Word Faith, Charismatic, or Pentecostal...

If the video gets too long, skip to the part where the TV personality starts to speak...

Bob Carabbio · Mar 7, 2014

Kind of takes me back 40 years to the time of the Charismatic outpouring in Western Ohio.

Naturally I'd be somewhat suspicious of anything that "ROME" would do, because there's much ERROR in their theology.

Of course there's "Error" in all groups, so you have to learn to "Eat the Meat", and "Spit out the bones". Christians tend NOT to "Read their Bibles", so they're "Fair game" for deception.

But the simple FACT is that in the '70s - in Western Ohio, ANY MEETING of Charismatics was going to be about 50% Spirit Filled Roman Catholics. Full-Gospel protestants, in fact were being invited into Catholic Churches to TEACH the people and the priesthood what was going on. And we felt constrained by the Spirit NOT to attempt to proselyte Catholics OUT OF the RCC, but to teach 'em "IN IT".

And in those years, "Denomination" simply became unimportant, in the presence of the Holy Spirit in the churches, and we just "Flowed together" as Brothers and Sisters in the Lord.

It could happen again, but ROME would have to change - a LOT - in it's emphasis, and politics. In the '70s, the Catholics wanted to include US in their "Eucharist", but that wasn't gonna happen - so they joined us in our "Communion". In the late '70s, the "Outpouring ended, of course, and we all went back to being "Denominational" - again.

Cope's not anybody that I'd listen to for teaching (He tends to say really silly stuff now and again). But as a platform, he's probably as good as any.

Tammy · Mar 8, 2014

I watched that video....very scary....

Faulty · Mar 8, 2014

I think his choice was well placed as KC relies heavily on extra-biblical revelation for his source of truth, as does the RCC.

I rejected KC as a teacher a long time ago, and his lack of discernment in leading his people towards Rome, is just a big and glaring confirmation that I did the right thing.

Tammy · Mar 8, 2014

Faulty said:
I think his choice was well placed as KC relies heavily on extra-biblical revelation for his source of truth, as does the RCC.

I rejected KC as a teacher a long time ago, and his lack of discernment in leading his people towards Rome, is just a big and glaring confirmation that I did the right thing.

AMEN! & AMEN!

Joe Guth · Mar 8, 2014

Joe Guth said:
Recently, a Televangelist had a large gathering. His words started out something like this, "You gonna talk about tonight for a long ..."

POPE TO COPELAND: CATHOLICS AND CHARISMATICS MUST SPIRITUALLY UNITE - YouTube

What do you think about the choice of the TV personality? I especially am interested in Non-RCC posters who are Word Faith, Charismatic, or Pentecostal...

If the video gets too long, skip to the part where the TV personality starts to speak...

Before I move forward, I must say that there are Christians in Word Faith. Just like their are Christians at the YMCA, on the Golf Course, at work, and other places where large numbers of people gather together.

Having argued against this movement for 23+ years, I have pointed out the following:

The error of the Born Again Jesus - Jesus Died Spiritually Doctrine
The error of the Little Gods Doctrine
The error of defining faith
The error of Faith in Faith
How positive confession is really incantations though they argue that it is just faith building
How your confession really isn't your possession
How God is not your cosmic vending machine to make you rich at your every whim
How God doesn't heal everyone based upon their faith
How Word Faith has its roots in the Mind Science Cults of Boston
How they have re-defined words like incarnation
How Word Faith approaches scripture with presuppositions then looks for scripture to support the presuppositions ignoring the rest of scripture
How Word Faith is not Eastern Orthodox
How numerous Fathers of the faith never taught what they say they taught that supposedly agrees with Word Faith

***** STAFF EDIT *****

Tammy · Mar 9, 2014

Joe Guth said:
Before I move forward, I must say that there are Christians in Word Faith. Just like their are Christians at the YMCA, on the Golf Course, at work, and other places where large numbers of people gather together.

Having argued against this movement for 23+ years, I have pointed out the following:

The error of the Born Again Jesus - Jesus Died Spiritually Doctrine
The error of the Little Gods Doctrine
The error of defining faith
The error of Faith in Faith
How positive confession is really incantations though they argue that it is just faith building
How your confession really isn't your possession
How God is not your cosmic vending machine to make you rich at your every whim
How God doesn't heal everyone based upon their faith
How Word Faith has its roots in the Mind Science Cults of Boston
How they have re-defined words like incarnation
How Word Faith approaches scripture with presuppositions then looks for scripture to support the presuppositions ignoring the rest of scripture
How Word Faith is not Eastern Orthodox
How numerous Fathers of the faith never taught what they say they taught that supposedly agrees with Word Faith

***** STAFF EDIT *****

I agree there are Christians in every religion (except Satanic cults). I appreciate your summary here, of where KC has gone astray.

I think the text:

Revelation 13:3
(3) .... and all the world wondered after the beast.

is applicable here....

Bob Carabbio · Mar 9, 2014

ANd then there's Acts 5:

34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Sounds like it'll all be a "Self-Healing situation", regardless of anybody's "Religious Angst".

Simple as that.

Faulty · Mar 9, 2014

Bob Carabbio said:
ANd then there's Acts 5:

34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Sounds like it'll all be a "Self-Healing situation", regardless of anybody's "Religious Angst".

Simple as that.

You're saying we should follow the ill-conceived suggestion of an unregenerate Christ-rejecter?

Bob Carabbio · Mar 10, 2014

"You're saying we should follow the ill-conceived suggestion of an unregenerate Christ-rejecter?"

This is the "Jump to the extreme" manoever. Worthless in the discussion, of course. Which particular "Unregenerate Christ Rejector", specifically are you "Stressing about" here (Seems like there'd be a selection in this case depending on your religious paradigm)????

What I'm saying, is that what you'll do, (like everybody else) it what's right in your OWN eyes theologically.

If the Pope, Cope, and his boys are "Setting a trap", then IF you have biblical knowledge/Understanding, then you won't fall in, and in the final analysis, it'll come to nothing.

If You DON'T have Biblical Knowledge, then you're "Fair Game" for deception.

But the "Perfect corporate MAN" - the Church in Ephesians Will be a reality before the end of the age, but it won't be a "Denominational System".

now faith · Apr 13, 2014

Joe Guth said:
Before I move forward, I must say that there are Christians in Word Faith. Just like their are Christians at the YMCA, on the Golf Course, at work, and other places where large numbers of people gather together.

Having argued against this movement for 23+ years, I have pointed out the following:

The error of the Born Again Jesus - Jesus Died Spiritually Doctrine
The error of the Little Gods Doctrine
The error of defining faith
The error of Faith in Faith
How positive confession is really incantations though they argue that it is just faith building
How your confession really isn't your possession
How God is not your cosmic vending machine to make you rich at your every whim
How God doesn't heal everyone based upon their faith
How Word Faith has its roots in the Mind Science Cults of Boston
How they have re-defined words like incarnation
How Word Faith approaches scripture with presuppositions then looks for scripture to support the presuppositions ignoring the rest of scripture
How Word Faith is not Eastern Orthodox
How numerous Fathers of the faith never taught what they say they taught that supposedly agrees with Word Faith

Now I get to warn them that the RCC is also decidedly unChristian. and to follow KC in to the RCC is placing final nails in to an already apostate religion...

Mark 11:22, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Romans 10:8, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Genesis 17:10, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Genesis 17, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Genesis 12:3, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Galatians 3:29, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Isaiah 53:5, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Matthew 8:17, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
3 John 1:2, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Genesis 1, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Mark 11:22, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Proverbs 18:21, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Numbers 14:28, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Psalms 82:6, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
John 10:34, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
Hebrews 1:3, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)
John 14:12, King James Version (Oxford Standard, 1769)

A summary in part of Bible verse W.O F believes to be true.
Source Wikipedia.

now faith · Apr 13, 2014

Joe Guth said:
Recently, a Televangelist had a large gathering. His words started out something like this, "You gonna talk about tonight for a long ..."

POPE TO COPELAND: CATHOLICS AND CHARISMATICS MUST SPIRITUALLY UNITE - YouTube

What do you think about the choice of the TV personality? I especially am interested in Non-RCC posters who are Word Faith, Charismatic, or Pentecostal...

If the video gets too long, skip to the part where the TV personality starts to speak...

You actually are critical of this event,a married charismatic priest giving witness of God's
Grace across denominations.
A pope calling for unity in the body of Christ,a preacher offering thanks and blessings to him.

Not that Copland meant it this way but God's word tells us to even bless our enemies.

So what I gather is we should think all Catholics are evil along with Copeland.

Even if the Catholic is one of your own Charismatic.

For those who think this is wrong,that others confessing salvation through Christ by God's mercy and grace...What does it take to qualify in your eyes?
What if your just plain wrong in judging these men?

Christ rode into the city of peace on a donkey it was a sign of a king entering in peace.
The next time he will come on a white horse a sign of a king entering in victory.

I would rather accept the first time he came in peace,than to be subject to the next time.

now faith · Apr 13, 2014

Good news those who criticised Copeland over the pope are in good company.
Doug Batchler a popular seventh day Adventist agrees with you!

He said it was a warning from the Pope a threat!!

Wonder what the Mormon response is?

Jehovah's Whiteness may not like it either.

Saddle up and get ready to ride,this criticism has the elements of a Sam Peckenpaw film.

pyramid33 · Apr 13, 2014

I think it is neat that two religion sect's are attempting to unite. I hope all religion's can unite and put the trust in God.

now faith · Apr 14, 2014

pyramid33 said:
I think it is neat that two religion sect's are attempting to unite. I hope all religion's can unite and put the trust in God.

Well yes I think it is good when different denominations can find common ground.

That common ground is the worship of God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am a faith person yet the idea of a single body of believers,will not happen till Christ return.

Faulty · Apr 14, 2014

Bob Carabbio said:
"You're saying we should follow the ill-conceived suggestion of an unregenerate Christ-rejecter?"

This is the "Jump to the extreme" manoever. Worthless in the discussion, of course. Which particular "Unregenerate Christ Rejector", specifically are you "Stressing about" here (Seems like there'd be a selection in this case depending on your religious paradigm)????

Since when is taking bad advice that can ultimately lead people into hell if they also follow it a good thing?

You might call me jumping to extremes, but I call you irresponsible.

To answer your question, Gamaliel, who you quoted, was the unregenerated Christ rejector you were referring to. Had he not been so, he wouldn't have been among the group commanding them NOT to speak in the name of Jesus any more (Acts 5:40).

His advice was extraordinarily bad for any circumstance, let alone those dealing with the eternal. I'm even a bit baffled the counsel was that stupid, unless God or their own sin was blinding them somewhat.

What I'm saying, is that what you'll do, (like everybody else) it what's right in your OWN eyes theologically.

If the Pope, Cope, and his boys are "Setting a trap", then IF you have biblical knowledge/Understanding, then you won't fall in, and in the final analysis, it'll come to nothing.

If You DON'T have Biblical Knowledge, then you're "Fair Game" for deception.

But the "Perfect corporate MAN" - the Church in Ephesians Will be a reality before the end of the age, but it won't be a "Denominational System".

Well shoot, why stand up for anything at all then? No reason to vote, watch your diet, or even teach your kids to look both ways while crossing the street if it's all the same in the end, right?

Faulty · Apr 14, 2014

pyramid33 said:
I think it is neat that two religion sect's are attempting to unite. I hope all religion's can unite and put the trust in God.

I don't have issues when denominations combine, depending on what the exact points of compromise were, but when religions attempt to combine, huge problem.

ToBeBlessed · Apr 14, 2014

Tammy said:
I agree there are Christians in every religion (except Satanic cults). I appreciate your summary here, of where KC has gone astray.

I think the text:

Revelation 13:3
(3) .... and all the world wondered after the beast.

is applicable here....

^ ^ THIS. ..... and all the world wondered after the beast.

Maybe because the RCC has Charismatics is why it is happening here first. I think they want to gauge reaction and tolerance towards the idea.

As BobCarabbio said "If the Pope, Cope, and his boys are "Setting a trap", then IF you have biblical knowledge/Understanding, then you won't fall in, and in the final analysis, it'll come to nothing. If You DON'T have Biblical Knowledge, then you're "Fair Game" for deception."

Very true!

now faith · Apr 14, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
^ ^ THIS. ..... and all the world wondered after the beast.

Maybe because the RCC has Charismatics is why it is happening here first. I think they want to gauge reaction and tolerance towards the idea.

As BobCarabbio said "If the Pope, Cope, and his boys are "Setting a trap", then IF you have biblical knowledge/Understanding, then you won't fall in, and in the final analysis, it'll come to nothing. If You DON'T have Biblical Knowledge, then you're "Fair Game" for deception."

Very true!

What kind of trap would they be setting?

Deception is what it is due to its clandestine work.

I do not understand why with people confessing Christ is Lord we question their motives.

God is in control no matter what is on the horizon,I read the back of the book and we still
Win.

Bob Carabbio · Apr 14, 2014

"His advice was extraordinarily bad for any circumstance,"

Nah! silly!! It's EXCELLENT advice from one who is WISE enough in God's Word to trust God to bring about his plan WITH OR WITHOUT Our "Theological Help". Gamaliel might not have been a Christian, but he UNDERSTOOD the Sovereignty of God.

"Well shoot, why stand up for anything at all then? No reason to vote, watch your diet, or even teach your kids to look both ways while crossing the street if it's all the same in the end, right?"

And, of course the same 'ol "Jump to the absurd" manoever - AGAIN.

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