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I'm familiar with Dr. Segal's work. To put it charitably, it's thin.You could look into Alan Segal, a rabbinical scholar who wrote the book "Two Powers in Heaven" and Dr. Michael Heisner, a Chrisitan scholar who also writes about how OT writings support that Jesus is and has been the king of the Jews. They go into the idea much more thoroughly.
http://twopowersinheaven.com/
Both occurred relatively close in time. How much time could have elapsed between Mt 18:20 and Mt 24:36? If he emptied himself of his deity to become a man, then he could not be omniscient, omnipresent, and/or omnipotent.Time frame allows the difference.
God is outside of time, God went inside the time frame earth in the flesh... If He emptied Himself, then He was omniscient, omnipresent, and omniprotent, which He picked up again after His earthly flesh mission.Both occurred relatively close in time. How much time could have elapsed between Mt 18:20 and Mt 24:36? If he emptied himself of his deity to become a man, then he could not be omniscient, omnipresent, and/or omnipotent.
If you are correct, then in between his "emptying" and his "picking it up again," he was not omnipresent, omnipotent or omniscient. That was my original point. He was none of those things while in the flesh.God is outside of time, God went inside the time frame earth in the flesh... If He emptied Himself, then He was omniscient, omnipresent, and omniprotent, which He picked up again after His earthly flesh mission.
No argument there. ... the flesh was not omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient.If you are correct, then in between his "emptying" and his "picking it up again," he was not omnipresent, omnipotent or omniscient. That was my original point. He was none of those things while in the flesh.
As for "God went inside the time frame earth in the flesh," that is not what the Word says.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God (Elohim/YHWH) was in Christ (Maschiach), reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.We are not told "God was Christ" or that "Elohim was Maschiach", but that He was in (greek - en) Maschiach. YHWH did not become a flesh and blood man who could die (He has inherent immortality), but He lived in a flesh and blood man through His indwelling Ruach HaKodesh.
The Greek word for "worship" in Matthew 4:10 is from "proskuneo". A form of "proskuneo" was also used in Revelation 3:9:Yeshua was WORSHIPPED - Matthew 2:11, Matthew 9:12, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, Luke 24:52..
Since only God is to be worshipped - Matthew 4:10
...that means Yeshua is God.
Even angels WORSHIP Yeshua - Hebrews 1:6
Heaven falls down before the Lamb - Revelation 5:8
Every knee shall bow - Romans 14:11
The Father and the Son share some titles. Each is the first and last of his peculiar, unique kind. YHWH is unique in that He is the only being that was not created and Yeshua is unique in that he is the only being ever to be directly begotten by the Father (John 1:14). (Adam was created, all others were begotten by men).Yeshua calls Himself the FIRST AND THE LAST - Revelation 1:11,17.
Only GOD is the FIRST AND THE LAST - Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12
Meet God..Face to face... one on one.. sup with Him... I know from the abundance of explanations given, the mind has locked in this theology. BUT ...Reality is mind blowing when it come to meeting with God and to understand, truly understand, the indwelling of the Son in the Father and the indwelling of the Father in the Son..The Father and the Son share some titles. Each is the first and last of his peculiar, unique kind. YHWH is unique in that He is the only being that was not created and Yeshua is unique in that he is the only being ever to be directly begotten by the Father (John 1:14). (Adam was created, all others were begotten by men).
Titles that YHWH and Yeshua have in common do not supply a firm foundation for a "Oneness" doctrine. If that were true, Cyrus, the king of Persia, would have been the supposed pre-existent Son since both are called "Mashiach." In Isiah 45:1a it reads, "Thus saith YHWH to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him;" The Hebrew for "anointed" is the same word that was translated "Messiah" in Daniel 9:25,26 and "anointed" in Psalm 2:2.
Interesting. I can say the same thing right back to you. You think I need understanding and I think you need understanding. What matters is, which view aligns with Scripture. I know mine does and yours doesn't. All yours does is cause tremendous confusion and disharmony of Scripture. Case in point, John 17:21 which you quoted.Meet God..Face to face... one on one.. sup with Him... I know from the abundance of explanations given, the mind has locked in this theology. BUT ...Reality is mind blowing when it come to meeting with God and to understand, truly understand, the indwelling of the Son in the Father and the indwelling of the Father in the Son..
John 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Interesting. I can say the same thing right back to you. You think I need understanding and I think you need understanding. What matters is, which view aligns with Scripture. I know mine does and yours doesn't. All yours does is cause tremendous confusion and disharmony of Scripture. Case in point, John 17:21 which you quoted.
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
This verse teaches us that Yeshua's desire is that his disciple be one in the Father and the Son. It is the same oneness that he and his Father share (John 17:22). If he and his Father are one in the sense of being the same being, then Yeshua's wants his disciples to be the same being. Nonsense. It is not a oneness of being, but a oneness or unity of belief, purpose, fellowship, etc.
I agree, but the disharmony is caused by not agreeing on what the Scriptures say. Either Yeshua is our Heavenly Father or he is not. Either he is the only true Elohim or he is not.I was enjoying the discussion until you said, "What matters is, which view aligns with Scripture. I know mine does and yours doesn't. All yours does is cause tremendous confusion and disharmony of Scripture."
It is CF members who have views about the scriptures and it is us who have the potential to cause tremendous confusion and harmony between ourselves.
I "know" Him not from theology but from experience in His Presence.Interesting. I can say the same thing right back to you. You think I need understanding and I think you need understanding. What matters is, which view aligns with Scripture. I know mine does and yours doesn't. All yours does is cause tremendous confusion and disharmony of Scripture. Case in point, John 17:21 which you quoted.
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
This verse teaches us that Yeshua's desire is that his disciple be one in the Father and the Son. It is the same oneness that he and his Father share (John 17:22). If he and his Father are one in the sense of being the same being, then Yeshua's wants his disciples to be the same being. Nonsense. It is not a oneness of being, but a oneness or unity of belief, purpose, fellowship, etc.
What the scriptures say? The scriptures transmit ideas, events and spoken dialogues. They are a record between the very real heavenly individuals and the generations of humanity. None of us here have an arm strong enough to resurrect past generations of mankind and interview them to question and say "what do you mean when you said...?". Nor can we ascend to heaven and likewise inquire of those who reside there.I agree, but the disharmony is caused by not agreeing on what the Scriptures say. Either Yeshua is our Heavenly Father or he is not. Either he is the only true Elohim or he is not.
No. The task of Philippians 2:12 is my own, I can't work out your salvation because you don't believe _____ doctrine. I can try and offer my ideas but we may not necessarily agree on everything. With the exceptions of the coming in the flesh, the empty tomb and bodily resurrection of Yeshua, Philippians 2:11 and 1 John 2:4. Those are non negotiable.So what you are saying is scripture is worthless because we can't know what the authors meant?
So what you are saying is scripture is worthless because we can't know what the authors meant?
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