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If they are one and the same, then please explain John 8:13-18.One and the same.
I have been where you are. I saw what you are posting. I see differently now. I would be addressing rhetoric if I argue your points. I would rather show the wide spread of truth throughout scripture and let the Holy Spirit convict. I am not here to argue with you. I appreciate you posting your point of view. It allows others who are reading these posts to compare.Visionary, can you please take a breath and come up for air? Instead of whipping off post after post, it would be nice if you would address my replies. Have you read any of them or are you so bent on pushing your beliefs that you will not consider anything different?
Can God witness as the Judge, the advocate, the witness, the Father, the Son? Will each of these testimonies come from the different angles? Can they still be one?If they are one and the same, then please explain John 8:13-18.
Joh 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.If Yeshua was the Father, then he lied about he and the Father being TWO witnesses. They were not one and the same witness, but TWO different, separate witnesses.
Joh 8:14 Yeshua answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
Joh 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
I don't build major doctrines on assumptions. You are assuming they spoke only Aramaic and that they used the word "memra" at that time.
If the Father is really the Son, then He lied to us and tried to mislead us by using the terms "Father" and "Son" to teach us how the two relate. Those terms in English denote two different beings. The parallel words in Hebrew and Greek also denote two different beings.Can God witness as the Judge, the advocate, the witness, the Father, the Son? Will each of these testimonies come from the different angles? Can they still be one?
I agree they had a custom of the public reading of Scripture. If they added "memra" into those readings, then they broke Deuteronomy 4:2.1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.
I never said that they spoke only in Aramaic. Ezra introduced the custom of public reading of Scripture, which still existed in Paul's day, and which involved reading an Aramaic translation after the Torah was read in Hebrew so that the people who spoke only Aramaic could understand. I think a case can be made that John's Gospel was originally written in Aramaic, but even if that were not the case, I've already shown that it has strong parallels with the concept of the memra, so he was drawing on an already existing concept rather than inventing a new one.
And he spoke of his lack of omniscience this way:Yeshua spoke of His omnipresents this way.
Matt 18:20 “For wherever two or three are assembled in my name, I am there with them.”
Yeshua also speaks of always being with us
Matt 28:20 “And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.”
The only way He can keep His Word is because He is God.
I agree they had a custom of the public reading of Scripture. If they added "memra" into those readings, then they broke Deuteronomy 4:2.
First, Rom 10:9 in the Greek does not say "Jesus is Lord". Second, Joel 2:32 does not say, "God", but "YHWH".When the apostle Paul said
Rom 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, “
he went on to say
Rom 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
He was quoting the prophet Joel, who said
Joel 2:32 “Everyone who calls on the name of God will be saved”
Therefore, to say “Yeshua is Lord” is to say “Yeshua is God”!
To use His Hebrew name, we would more correctly say, “Yeshua is YHVH.”
I would agree if the Targum was just giving commentary, but that is not the case. It quotes verses, but adds the word "memra".Translating the Torah to make it clear and giving meaning to it so that people can understand it is not at all the same as add or subtracting one of God's commands. In any case, the concept Yeshua being the angel of the Lord, who also has a role in the OT is something that is already in the text.
I am a wife and a mother, As your mother, I say, as the wife, I say... while it is me both times, the context demands in what authority I speak from.If the Father is really the Son, then He lied to us and tried to mislead us by using the terms "Father" and "Son" to teach us how the two relate. Those terms in English denote two different beings. The parallel words in Hebrew and Greek also denote two different beings.
Your oneness doctrine is also absurd when considering many other verses and concepts. If Yeshua is the only true God, how can he be the mediator between God and man? How can he have a God that he serves? How could he die? How can he be tempted? How can he not know something? How can he be his own priest? and on and on.
First, Rom 10:9 in the Greek does not say "Jesus is Lord". Second, Joel 2:32 does not say, "God", but "YHWH".
The is a big difference between one person holding two offices and two persons being made into one person.I am a wife and a mother, As your mother, I say, as the wife, I say... while it is me both times, the context demands in what authority I speak from.
... When Yeshua took on flesh, He empties Himself....And he spoke of his lack of omniscience this way:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32
Yep.. God holds many offices.The is a big difference between one person holding two offices and two persons being made into one person.
We are dealing with a quote from Joel. It is not nitpicking to require a correct quote, especially since we are dealing with the word "Lord".ok.. So God is not YHVH?? I think this is nitpicking .. in efforts to cloud the obvious.
So, you will quote verses of his supposed omnipresence while a man, but you make excuses for his lack of omniscience as a man?... When Yeshua took on flesh, He empties Himself....
Philippians 2:
6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
He grew....
Luke 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Which means that He gave up all to learn it again like a human. It means we are given enough to also know Him, our Creator and Redeemer.
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