All actions of God in OT is Yeshua

visionary · May 14, 2016

Deuteronomy 4: 39 ...know today, and establish it in your heart, that ADONAI is God in heaven above and on earth below - there is no other.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am ADONAI; there is no other; besides me there is no God.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

John 14:9: Whoever sees me sees the Father....

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
Yep. and Yeshua said it was He who was before Abraham, the great I AM.

Yeshua did not say, "Before Abraham was, I am the great I AM". The KJV says he said, "Before Abraham was, I am".

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Ex 3:14 reads,

In Septuagint English it reads, "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you."

In KJV English it reads, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58, "I am" is "

" in Greek. As you can see, "

" in Ex 3:14 is just the prelude to what the Almighty really wanted the Israelites to know, that is, that He was the "

" or "the Being" or "the Existing One".

If Yeshua truly wanted to tell the Jews he was the great "I am" of Ex 3:14, he would have said, "Before Abraham was I am the Being" or "I am the Existing One".

Also, the simple use of

does not make one the great "I AM". Consider the blind man's words in John 9:9;

Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (

).

.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

Soyeong said:
Nehemiah 8:8 They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear[a] and giving the meaning so that the people understood what was being read.

This verse is in reference to the Targum, which made the Book of the Law of God clear and gave it meaning so that the people could understand it.

Nehemiah 8:8 is a reference to Torah, not the Targum.

visionary · May 14, 2016

There was an interesting thing happened in the garden of Gethsemane. Judas came with the Roman cohorts, the commanders and the officers of the priest's court to arrest Yeshua.

He asked them, “Whom do you seek?” They replied, “Jesus of Nazareth.” And when He said, “I AM,” the Scripture says they all drew back and fell to the ground (John 18:6). In the modern English versions, it may say, “I AM He,” but the Greek simply says “eimi” meaning “I AM.” I think for a flash, they were blown with the revelation that they were standing before God. It seems they were so stunned when He spoke this that it had the effect of knocking them to the ground, as if the power of God hit them. In fact, it so immobilized them that He had to ask them a second time whom they were seeking, once again confirming His identity to them, and He then invited them to come and arrest Him.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
Deuteronomy 4: 39 ...know today, and establish it in your heart, that ADONAI is God in heaven above and on earth below - there is no other.

Isaiah 45: 5 I am ADONAI; there is no other; besides me there is no God.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

All references to the Father. If Isa 45:5 is a reference to the Son, then does that mean the Father is not God?

John 14:9:

Click to expand...

Whoever sees me sees the Father....

We see the character and personality of the Father through the Son. The Son is NOT the Father. Neither is the Father the Son.

Soyeong · May 14, 2016

gadar perets said:
Nehemiah 8:8 is a reference to Torah, not the Targum.

Sorry, I edited it too late. The people had been in captivity and spoke Aramaic, so they needed it translated and explained so that they could understand it. So they were reading from the Torah, but translating it into Aramaic, which is the Targum. Regardless of whether you think the Targum was inspired, that is the concept that John was referring to when he identified Yeshua as the memra.

visionary · May 14, 2016

gadar perets said:
Yeshua did not say, "Before Abraham was, I am the great I AM". The KJV says he said, "Before Abraham was, I am".

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Ex 3:14 reads,

In Septuagint English it reads, "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you."

In KJV English it reads, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58, "I am" is "

" in Greek. As you can see, "

" in Ex 3:14 is just the prelude to what the Almighty really wanted the Israelites to know, that is, that He was the "

" or "the Being" or "the Existing One".

If Yeshua truly wanted to tell the Jews he was the great "I am" of Ex 3:14, he would have said, "Before Abraham was I am the Being" or "I am the Existing One".

Also, the simple use of

does not make one the great "I AM". Consider the blind man's words in John 9:9;

Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (

).

Being non-trinitarian, it is amazing at how much separation this presentation is trying to put between God and Yeshua.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
There was an interesting thing happened in the garden of Gethsemane. Judas came with the Roman cohorts, the commanders and the officers of the priest's court to arrest Yeshua.

He asked them, “Whom do you seek?” They replied, “Jesus of Nazareth.” And when He said, “I AM,” the Scripture says they all drew back and fell to the ground (John 18:6). In the modern English versions, it may say, “I AM He,” but the Greek simply says “eimi” meaning “I AM.” I think for a flash, they were blown with the revelation that they were standing before God. It seems they were so stunned when He spoke this that it had the effect of knocking them to the ground, as if the power of God hit them. In fact, it so immobilized them that He had to ask them a second time whom they were seeking, once again confirming His identity to them, and He then invited them to come and arrest Him.

It is not made clear why they fell to the ground, but what followed will make it clear that Yeshua was not claiming to be the "I AM."

After Yeshua's arrest, the Jews took him to Annas first (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Mt.26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Yeshua to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn't find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn't bear false witness about what Yeshua said in John 8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days. Where were all those witnesses from John 8:58?

The point about Mt.26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Yeshua say "Ego eimi." They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn't. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn't. Why not? Because it wasn't blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Yeshua of Nazareth.

visionary · May 14, 2016

When Yeshua said
Luke 6:5 The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath

his hearers would have recalled that God gave them the fourth commandment with the words

Ex 20:10 the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord, your God.

So once again Yeshua identified Himself as God, when He said He is "Lord of the Sabbath."

visionary · May 14, 2016

When John the Baptist came preaching repentance in the wilderness, Matthew said

Matt 3:3 “For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet. When he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, “Make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight!”.

The prophet Isaiah said

Is 40:3 “Prepare the way for God.”

John was preaching that people should repent to prepare the way for God, meaning the our Messiah Yeshua.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

Soyeong said:
Sorry, I edited it too late. The people had been in captivity and spoke Aramaic, so they needed it translated and explained so that they could understand it. So they were reading from the Torah, but translating it into Aramaic, which is the Targum. Regardless of whether you think the Targum was inspired, that is the concept that John was referring to when he identified Yeshua as the memra.

I don't build major doctrines on assumptions. You are assuming they spoke only Aramaic and that they used the word "memra" at that time.

visionary · May 14, 2016

Another example is when Yeshua said

Matt 23:39 “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blesses is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”

He was quoting the psalmist who said

Ps 118:26 “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. From the house of God we bless you.” Yeshua came as God in the flesh and in His name.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
Being non-trinitarian, it is amazing at how much separation this presentation is trying to put between God and Yeshua.

The "presentation" is meant to restore the truth. Yeshua himself made the separation clear when he said,

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

visionary · May 14, 2016

When the apostle Paul said

Rom 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, “

he went on to say

Rom 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

He was quoting the prophet Joel, who said

Joel 2:32 “Everyone who calls on the name of God will be saved”

Therefore, to say “Yeshua is Lord” is to say “Yeshua is God”!

To use His Hebrew name, we would more correctly say, “Yeshua is YHVH.”

visionary · May 14, 2016

gadar perets said:
The "presentation" is meant to restore the truth. Yeshua himself made the separation clear when he said,

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

One and the same.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
When Yeshua said
Luke 6:5 The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath

his hearers would have recalled that God gave them the fourth commandment with the words

Ex 20:10 the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord, your God.

So once again Yeshua identified Himself as God, when He said He is "Lord of the Sabbath."

Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Yeshua was not teaching us that he made the Sabbath and therefore is Lord of it. He was teaching us the proper relationship between mankind and the Sabbath.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
When John the Baptist came preaching repentance in the wilderness, Matthew said

Matt 3:3 “For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet. When he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, “Make ready the way of the Lord, make His paths straight!”.

The prophet Isaiah said

Is 40:3 “Prepare the way for God.”

John was preaching that people should repent to prepare the way for God, meaning the our Messiah Yeshua.

Of all the N.T. verses that quote Isaiah, Luke 3:4-6 aids our understanding because it includes Isiah 40:4 & 5. It says, "As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of Yahweh, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of Yahweh." "Prepare ye the way of Yahweh" does not mean, "Move out of the way because Yahweh is coming." And so when Yeshua comes they believe he is Yahweh.

How was "the way" to be prepared? By filling valleys, leveling mountains, straightening paths, etc. This work is not to be understood literally, but spiritually through the humbling of those in exalted positions and the restoration of truth. Who was to do that work? John 4:34 says, "Yeshua saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me, and to finish his work." Almighty Yahweh appointed His Son Yeshua to finish His work. Yeshua was Yahweh's instrument in the accomplishment of His great plan. Yeshua is the "Messenger of the Covenant," "the servant of Yahweh," and "the salvation of Yahweh." John 14:6 calls Yeshua "the way." He is "the way of Yahweh;" the means through which Yahweh will finish His work.

visionary · May 14, 2016

Yeshua is the first and the last, He is the alpha and Omega. There is no one besides Him.

Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa.43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Rev.1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ....11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: ...17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: .....18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Rev.22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

gadar perets · May 14, 2016

visionary said:
Another example is when Yeshua said

Matt 23:39 “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blesses is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”

He was quoting the psalmist who said

Ps 118:26 “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. From the house of God we bless you.” Yeshua came as God in the flesh and in His name.

The Son came in the name of (in the authority of) YHWH. The Father sent the Son as His emissary/representative with full authority to carry out the Father's will.

visionary · May 14, 2016

Matthew 14:25
And in the fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid."

The significance of Yeshua's response - "It is I" - is much more powerful and meaningful than most Bible readers realize. In Hebrew, Yeshua did not say "It is I" but rather "I AM", which is a direct assertion of His deity. God revealed His name to Moses as I AM.

All actions of God in OT is Yeshua

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Well-Known Member

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Messianic Hebrew

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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