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If they were tribes, why didn't they continue?You do realize Samaria was the capital of Israel(the northern nation), do you not? The Samaritans lost their ability to identify specific tribes because they were thoroughly occupied by Assyria for hundreds of years but they remained the descendents of the 10 tribes that made up Israel(the northern kingdom) which had Samaria as its capital.
Because they separated themselves off, as a distinct people.Because Assyria conquered them and was very thorough in their occupation.
Theological disputes don't change their heritage, though if you want to know the history of Samaria and the Assyrian occupation you simply need to read the books of kings(1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings). Point stands that the Jews are simply 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel and not purely synonymous(though in polemic literature Paul eschewed some of this nuance to address the issues he was aiming at)Because they separated themselves off, as a distinct people.
From wiki.....
Regarding the Samaritan Pentateuch as the unaltered Torah, the Samaritans view the Jews as close relatives but claim that Judaism fundamentally alters the original Israelite religion. The most notable theological divide between Jewish and Samaritan doctrine concerns the holiest site, which the Jews believe is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and which Samaritans identify as Mount Gerizim near modern Nablus and ancient Shechem in the Samaritan version of Deuteronomy 16:6
Separating themselves does. Israel is a nation with an inheritance of their fathers in the covenant of Circumcision.Theological disputes don't change their heritage,
Jesus....though if you want to know the history of Samaria and the Assyrian occupation you simply need to read the books of kings(1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings). Point stands that the Jews are simply 2 of the 12 tribes of Israel and not purely synonymous(though in polemic literature Paul eschewed some of this nuance to address the issues he was aiming at)
They disputed with the Jews over which mountain was holy, but maintained circumcision on the 8th day as the Torah commands. So which mountain did Jesus endorse?Separating themselves does. They have an inheritance as a nation in the covenant of Circumcision.
Jesus....
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Go ahead and make up your own way, in agreement with them.
So anyone circumcising their children is an heir? And I would argue they do not do so as Torah commands.They disputed with the Jews over which mountain was holy, but maintained circumcision on the 8th day as the Torah commands. So which mountain did Jesus endorse?
Your shifting of goal posts aside, it is their tribal heritage that makes them heirs. Israel is not just Benjamin and Judah.So anyone circumcising their children is an heir? And I would argue they do not do so as Torah commands.
Daughters which were heirs, as there was no male to pass it to, were to marry into the tribe of their father.......
Nu 36:7 So shall not the inheritance of the children of Israel remove from tribe to tribe:
Nu 36:8 And every daughter, that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.
Nu 36:9 Neither shall the inheritance remove from one tribe to another tribe; but every one of the tribes of the children of Israel shall keep himself to his own inheritance.
Tribal affiliation through children. Intermarriage
Ez 47:21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezek 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
I am not shifting anything. You are the one telling me why people are Israel / a jew according to the Abrahamic covenant. But not according to the law.Your shifting of goal posts aside, it is their tribal heritage that makes them heirs. Israel is not just Benjamin and Judah.
You're conflating two different things, Jews a are members of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, while Israel comprises all 12 tribes of Israel not just those two. When forced to recognize the heritage of the Samaritans you attempted to shift the goal posts by conceding their heritage but then claiming they somehow set themselves apart by disagreeing about which mountain to worship on, despite maaintaining the same circumcision practices that you claimed set the Jews apart. So is it circumcision, or the mountain they worship God on, that makes a Jew a member of the covenant community?I am not shifting anything. You are the one telling me why people are Israel / a jew according to the Abrahamic covenant. But not according to the law.
For a stranger to become a Jew, He marries into a tribe through the woman. For a woman also to marry a jew. Then there are born Jew's. Like Tomothy's Mother. She was a Jewess married to a Greek. It did not make Tomothy a Jew, nor did it make his father a Jew. Circumcision of his household for a Male stranger and intermarriage into a tribe was the standard.
Samaritans have Separated themselves from all that. They ARE Samaritans. They don't claim tribal identity or marriage into a tribe.
Before they got the foreskins 200 men were killed. That part would involve them feeling pain.Dead men feel no pain.
Taking the foreskin of dead men, is like taking the sandals from their feet.
It was nothing, other than fulfilling a request which demonstrated that God was with him, and could deliver him, even from an army that would have been impossible to beat with just a few men.
David delivered double the amount to prove it.
Sorry I shouldn't have been talking about those other things.@JohnClay, is this subforum for debating Christian Theology, or addressing non-Christian Seekers asking questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept?
You'd better take reign of the thread, before it runs "Helter Skelter" into a never ending theological 'boxing match' about the Ten Commandments.
Oh. Sorry I missed the focus. I focused on the circumcision. I didn't realize your concern was with the deaths of the enemy.Before they got the foreskins 200 men were killed. That part would involve them feeling pain.
No. You aren't in the wrong, so no apology is needed from you. As the originator of the OP, you are free to talk about anything, and ask any question (keeping within the rules of this forum) in this sub-forum.Sorry I shouldn't have been talking about those other things.
The king wanted 100 foreskins in exchange for his daughter in marriage. This could have been achieved without killing anyone. But instead of killing 100 people David and his men killed 200 people. Despite this David is said to be a man after God's heart. (1 Samuel 13:14)Oh. Sorry I missed the focus. I focused on the circumcision. I didn't realize your concern was with the deaths of the enemy.
Why is that?
What if a million were killed?
Remember, this is a war, and the enemy was actually to be vanquished. Some would become laborers as prisoners of war... slaves if you like.
Why would that trouble you?
It's only fair I give you a chance to demonstrate how "this could have been achieved without killing anyone".The king wanted 100 foreskins in exchange for his daughter in marriage. This could have been achieved without killing anyone. But instead of killing 100 people David and his men killed 200 people. Despite this David is said to be a man after God's heart. (1 Samuel 13:14)
He could have threatened them with death then tied them up and collected their foreskins. Most of them might prefer to be tied up and circumcised rather than killed.It's only fair I give you a chance to demonstrate how "this could have been achieved without killing anyone".
Note... 100 foreskins of the Philistines. How could David get 100 foreskins of the Philistines without killing anyone, especially since the king expected him to get them... not from rotted corpses buried somewhere in the wilderness?
Hmm. Humiliate them and make them a laughing stock to their women and the nations that hear of it.He could have threatened them with death then tied them up and collected their foreskins. Most of them might prefer to be tied up and circumcised rather than killed.
Not following you on this one.Though it says the purpose is to take revenge on his enemies and 200 deaths is a higher amount of revenge.
Humiliate. Maybe but I think much more relieved to be still alive. And considering the problems associated with having a foreskin. Such as phimosis a foreskin that be to tight or bacterial or fungus or yeast infections. I think they and their woman might have fully appreciated the aftermath and health advantages of circumcisionHmm. Humiliate them and make them a laughing stock to their women and the nations that hear of it.
I could see how that would be something the most powerful army would want.
Not following you on this one.
David proved his valiance, and earned the respect as chief of his armies.
Yes, you are correct.BTW Jesus also was circumcised when he was 8 days old (Luke 2:21)
I paid someone to do this illustration for my Christmas book
which was based on a painting that didn't hide Jesus' manhood.
It also talks about John the Baptist being circumcised on the eighth day... (Luke 1:59)
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