Alien life???

[GeistAufHorizont]

whats everyones scope on God creating other races in the universe??

 

[Siliconaut]

My scope? No god is responsible, and chances of life existing elsewhere amongst the phantastillions of planets in our universe are high, to say the least.

Do they visit us? I highly doubt it. There is not only a physical gap between us and hypothetic alien civs, but also a temporal one: Are they still around, or around yet, and at the same time close enough to reach us?

I think, though, that there is insufficient data to extrapolate successfully just how high the chances for life per planet are, and how large distances in time and space must be for two races to successfully enter communications.

 

[Phred]

Better yet, what's your take on other races from other planets creating gods?

 

[tcampen]

My scope? No god is responsible, and chances of life existing elsewhere amongst the phantastillions of planets in our universe are high, to say the least.

Do they visit us? I highly doubt it. There is not only a physical gap between us and hypothetic alien civs, but also a temporal one: Are they still around, or around yet, and at the same time close enough to reach us?

I think, though, that there is insufficient data to extrapolate successfully just how high the chances for life per planet are, and how large distances in time and space must be for two races to successfully enter communications.

The probabilities are so high, in fact, that there are other planets essentially identical to our own, with people just like us, same names, doing exactly the same thing - just at a slightly different point in time. It's a mathmatical certainty. That's how many planets there are ours and the parallel universes. The whole concept was explored in Scientific American recently. Interesting stuff.

But I agree that the odds of intellegent, extraterrestrial life visiting Earth are pretty darn slim.

 

[tcampen]

Better yet, what's your take on other races from other planets creating gods?

The odds that super-advanced aliens are ultimately behind the world's religions, including christianity, are at least as good as any supernatural explanation. In fact, I'd say the odds are better, since one could assign a reaonably calcualted probability to such, whereas it is impossible to assign any numerical probability to anything supernatural.

something to think about.

 

[panterapat]

I have no problem with God having creating other beings. He created the Angels who live in the spiritual world. In this vast universe, I doubt that humans are the beginning and the end of it all.

 

[Hank]

Not sure what life we are referring too.

The possibility of another earth? How do the numbers look so promising for other life to exist? All things being equal I think we are very lucky to exist.

We got heat and light. Most of the universe is very dark and very cold. We got air. There are trace amounts of nitrogen in the universe. How many planets are placed in such ideal proximities of a star? Taking infinite position possibilities vs. one brings the overall probability down a little.

No I don't think Star Trek is remotely possible. Sure I do not know if life exist somewhere else or not, just raising doubts.

 

[Michali]

God himself is described as alien to the world and his followers are also. It makes me wonder if Angels and Demons are from a previously created planet. Surely they are a previous creation, but they exist on another dimensional plane, or perhaps have the ability to exist needlessly in any space. The spirit may as well be of this extradimensional material. Imagine, being able to see an object from every possible angle, traveling through time, or existing on a place outside of space itself. I highly suggest reading "Flatlanders" by Edwin A. Abott. He brings up alot of this in a story of wry humor between a square and a sphere.

You see: The square could only see a flat line his whole life in the second dimension. He and all who lived in flatland had no concept of heigth. One day a "circle's line" appeared and grew before him at of nowhere in his own home. It was a sphere descending on his plane of existence. The sphere played tricks before his eyes by telling him everything that was going on in his house (because, to the sphere, the flatland was seen as easily as we see what is on a sheet of paper.) He told the square what was in his safe box (or something). And the square was amazed. The sphere ascended (and "disappeared") and easily removed what was in the box and reappeared by descending. Then the sphere had told him to go and check for the objects in the box. The square could not find them, and the sphere had them. Eventually the sphere takes the square in a direction called "up" (which was inconcievable to the square) and the square was perplexed by how he was able to see into everyone's houses and see everything which he had to originally view as a straight line.

This to me is very demonstrative of the spiritual realm being another dimension.

 

[Siliconaut]

@Hank:

The possibility of another earth? How do the numbers look so promising for other life to exist? All things being equal I think we are very lucky to exist.

We got heat and light. Most of the universe is very dark and very cold. We got air. There are trace amounts of nitrogen in the universe. How many planets are placed in such ideal proximities of a star? Taking infinite position possibilities vs. one brings the overall probability down a little.

There is only one problem with your reasoning:

"Life lives everywhere it can. Where life can't, this takes a little longer." (source unknown to me, might be Sagan)

We weren't designed for the current environment earth offers, but adapted to it. Like the puddle, we got to fit our particular hole so well, simply because we must. Look at life - it has permeated every conceivable (and many inconceivable) ecological niche available. It can function without light, it can thrive in water superheated by volcanic vents, it can survive under deep-freeze conditions, and on the bottom of the deepest oceans. All those conditions vary so hugely, that it is folly to presume life could not have developed under wildly different circumstances.

No offense, just raising doubts.

 

[Michali]

@Hank: There is only one problem with your reasoning:

"Life lives everywhere it can. Where life can't, this takes a little longer." (source unknown to me, might be Sagan)

We weren't designed for the current environment earth offers, but adapted to it. Like the puddle, we got to fit our particular hole so well, simply because we must. Look at life - it has permeated every conceivable (and many inconceivable) ecological niche available. It can function without light, it can thrive in water superheated by volcanic vents, it can survive under deep-freeze conditions, and on the bottom of the deepest oceans. All those conditions vary so hugely, that it is folly to presume life could not have developed under wildly different circumstances.

No offense, just raising doubts.

Lifeforms themselves did not adapt to it. The ones that were weak died, and the ones that lived made more that could live (I'm not contradicting you here. I just want to bring up a point.) Now, we know that life survives in so very many places, (even harsh ones such as extreme temperature zones) how is it that a lifeform with the specific nessecities to live came about by random genetic mutations (which are only small in their amount of change) when there needed to be a huge difference from other lifeforms to be able to survive there. Yes, they could have eventually moved there, but that would mean that they would have had to have already come up with the outstanding features that cause them to survive. These features would be somewhat useless in their previous habitat, why would they have evolved them? There is a gradual factor, but that is somewhat unlikely in the case of freezing climates across oceans. And there is also the sparks of life that we see at volcanic cracks on the ocean floor. Where else is it that hot enough under water to be able to gradually change that one?

 

[Fiendishjester]

Bill Watterson once said that the surest sign of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us. I completely agree.

 

[LorentzHA]

To quote a prominet man at NASA, "It would not be weird if there was life our there it would be weirder if there wasn't." I doubt we will find it in our lifetime. The distances are too great. We have not even been past our own moon, which is comprable to walking to the end of your own driveway. We have recently discovered many other solar systems that also reside in the same arm of our pinwheel (MilkyWay) Galaxy that our solar system resides in, yet it would take 150,000 years to reace these other solar systems and they are the ones closes to us. We do not even know what is in the heart of our own Galaxy not to mention what is orbiting the Billions of Stars in the Billions of other galaxies.

 

[tcampen]

This is why I'm looking forward to the three probes currently on their way to Mars in search of signs of life. I hope they can just find it, so we can move beyond the basic question of whether life exists or once existed anywhere outside our planet. Personally, I find it a certainty such is the case, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

 

[Philostratus]

Life, in terms of microscopic life or "space slime" as I have heard it called, may be somewhat common. Intelligent life, on the other hand, is probably extremely rare.

The most comprehensive book on this matter, in my opinion, is a book called "Rare Earth" by Brownlee and Ward. The authors, a biologist and a geologist from the University of Washington, use our planet as a model for what physical circumstances are probably neccessary for the development of life into intelligent life. They take the Drake Equation and blow it out of the water. Their conclusions are that intelligent life, at least in the Milky Way, is very rare and possibly unique.

 

[Hank]

@Hank: There is only one problem with your reasoning:

"Life lives everywhere it can. Where life can't, this takes a little longer." (source unknown to me, might be Sagan)

We weren't designed for the current environment earth offers, but adapted to it. Like the puddle, we got to fit our particular hole so well, simply because we must. Look at life - it has permeated every conceivable (and many inconceivable) ecological niche available. It can function without light, it can thrive in water superheated by volcanic vents, it can survive under deep-freeze conditions, and on the bottom of the deepest oceans. All those conditions vary so hugely, that it is folly to presume life could not have developed under wildly different circumstances.

No offense, just raising doubts.

No offence taken, I simply do not know and voice my opinions

Life is carbon based. If we find carbon on mars, would the lack of life support your assertion? Besides carbon what other element(s) enable multi life forms?
I think if life in the universe is as diverse as on earth, each planet should contain some.

 

[LorentzHA]

This is why I'm looking forward to the three probes currently on their way to Mars in search of signs of life. I hope they can just find it, so we can move beyond the basic question of whether life exists or once existed anywhere outside our planet. Personally, I find it a certainty such is the case, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

I agree, however, Mars is like going to your neighbors house. I was under the impression from what I have read in my Astronomy Magazines, that "Martian Rock" that was collected on Earth's South Pole had what they believed to be ancient Prokaryotic DNA? I have seen a picture of it before in a piece of Rock. Unlike the Eukaryotic DNA the Prokaryote DNA curls over on itself to withstand extreme radiation. I believe that Mars once had some type of life. It was certainly not little green men and may not even have been life like we know it, but I am sure it had something. I think Mars atmosphere exploded when it was hit my a giant asteroid that made "Hella's Crater" There is even a bulge from the impact on the other side of the planet (Tharsus bulge). I imagine the Universe is teaming with life at all stages of evolution. I think the submarine they are going to send to Europa will be awesome! I think when basic life is discovered that narrow minded (afraid) people will revert to, "yeah, but".. I was shocked recently to find out how few people know that our whole solar system is just a dot on the outer reaches of ONE of the spiral arms of our pinwheel galaxy. Would you believe I have met people here in Texas who think our solar system is The Universe?? I met one man that was SHOCKED that our Sun is a star! I wish I could show you the look he had on his face. I asked him, "What did you think it was?" He looked dumbfounded....I enjoyed your post-thanks.

 

[joguy923]

um......my mom always told me there was no''aliens on mars''.

,

 

[joguy923]

but now that i think of it , i dont see why there would be anyways

 

[LorentzHA]

Life, in terms of microscopic life or "space slime" as I have heard it called, may be somewhat common. Intelligent life, on the other hand, is probably extremely rare.

The most comprehensive book on this matter, in my opinion, is a book called "Rare Earth" by Brownlee and Ward. The authors, a biologist and a geologist from the University of Washington, use our planet as a model for what physical circumstances are probably neccessary for the development of life into intelligent life. They take the Drake Equation and blow it out of the water. Their conclusions are that intelligent life, at least in the Milky Way, is very rare and possibly unique.

Sadly, We have no way of knowing. Until Hubble we had nothing but speculation what was beyond out own solar system, if anything. Now Hubble has seen many other solar systems. It can only see the Huge ginat planets like our own Jupiter..Earth would be like a grain of sand. Every star has the possibilty of a system and with 4 Billion stars per galax, I would bet there is "something" even in our own Galaxy. We have discovered over 170 planets orbiting other stars but have no was of seeing what if anything is on them. I am going to check out the book. I think I saw that one at barnes and Noble last week. Thanks for the suggestion I watched one program where a man from NASA basically said there alsmost has to be life out there. People just have no idea of size and distances. He did say if we were able to find out conclusivley it would have to be handled very delicat;y how they would handle that information. Everything people have had into them would be out the window. Even in this forum we have discussed this before and we have had people say, "Other life would be the work of the Devil." When I read that a few months ago I thought I was on on a TV show that they were combining Saturday Night Live with Hee Haw. Hard to believe in 2003 that people could even "think" (for lack of a better term) that way.

 

[armed2010]

um......my mom always told me there was no''aliens on mars''.

,

WOW, I didnt know your mom was a leading scientific expert on mars!!