Alcohol

[silkandhoney]

What are your thoughts on alcohol + faith? Thank you

 

[Autumnleaf]

Alcohol makes a mess of some people, when people kick it they tend to get faith back in spades though.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Too much is not good. Some ? Is not bad.

 

[saved24]

I don't like alcohol because where I live I see the harm it has caused to many of the families in our town. Most of the crimes here involve alcohol too.

(Welcome to the Christian forums by the way God bless. )

 

[dewood]

I would avoid it, especially if you have a family history of abuse or problems. It makes people do things they usually regret later.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

So much beer ..... and paraphrasing Homer "Beer is the cause of and solution to all problems".

 

[Quasicentennial]

Alcohol is most probably necessary in an emergency where an injured person might experience agony such as a broken collar bone, or suffer a bullet wound in the intestines because it makes the mind switch off pain, depression and anxiety:.
As for leisure, like a conversation at the pub with friends or with your yet-to-be partner, it does keep nervousness hidden by replacing it with a ticklish sense of humor and confidence:.
The negative side effects of alcohol can create confidence on immorality without Jesus. Add alcohol to the military then the "decent" men and women who died in the war are emulated during their funeral celebration but their personal past incidents with alcohol abuse are never mentioned if some of them were secret alcoholics:.
Personally, there shouldn't be a military because it encourages intelligent minds to invent new modern weapons of destructive power.: If there is such a Christian military, weapons of any kind are never or should be used:. The only weapon, or should I say sole ultimate power of weaponry is a spiritual one where the Word of God is preached out loudly and fearlessly, to break the spell of wickedNess in the hearts of non-Christians, to forgive them so that wickedNess can never return and doom their lives to eternal hell:.
When Jesus returns, whether or not he has forgiven and saved those who died in the war, is up to him and not us since he is the highest of all high judges, presidents and prime ministers, and of course, pastors and prophets .;'*';.

 

[Max Shade]

What are your thoughts on alcohol + faith? Thank you

I like Cabernet from the Willamette River Valley & have grown fond of East Coast muscadine especially one called Scuppernong. There is one East Coast winery I recommend for traditional old world varieties . . . regarding wine. Paul talked about wine in a favorable light in the New Testament, provided it was consumed responsibly.

I like Irish whiskey, it is tasty in moderation.

I have been casually exploring the legalities of home distilling & brewing. I think it'd be a fun hobby, though I would be scrupulous to obey all laws. I grow grapes on my own land & have bee n toying with the idea of getting serious about learning to cultivate. If I was tending my own vines rather than using them decoratively, I might find the Scriptures that use vineyard analogies more poignant.

 

[Albion]

It's obviously not a question of morality since we know that Jesus consumed wine, and medical science finds that small amounts may actually be beneficial. But, like everything else, you can make a vice out of a virtue or neutral commodity through abuse.

 

[forGod1]

alcohol is evil.. the devil is in love with alcohol.

 

[Max Shade]

alcohol is evil.. the devil is in love with alcohol.

right? I mean, Jesus turned water into wine & yet when the devil was tempting Him, He didn't turn the rocks into bread. . . you'd have an easier time declaring bread "evil. . the devil is in love with bread" at least it would be more Biblically consistent, still an abuse of Scripture . . . but not as heinous as demonizing alcohol. Misuse or abuse of any of the gifts of God is wrong, the gifts are wonderful. Like sex inside a proper Christian marriage, wonderful, beautiful, healthy whereas the abuse of that gift is all manner of sin. Like good food, God gave us taste buds to enjoy & eyes to take pleasure in an artfully crafted meal . . . but gluttony is a sin as is neglecting the needy while having plenty. I just can't imagine any Biblical support for your statement. . .

 

[WOOD81]

alcohol is a wonderful gift from god. the bible says that in heaven there will celebrations with the choicest of meats and the finest of wine. however, drunkeness is no good and we are also not to cause another to stumble. alcohol in itself isnt committing the crimes. people are. people are evil and alcohol isnt really the issue. its more about us and how we use it. if you drink and are feeling convicted about it. then that may be god telling you to stop.

 

[seashale76]

What are your thoughts on alcohol + faith? Thank you

Alcoholic wine is essential for communion. Using grape juice is an abomination. So- on that front- alcohol and faith are meant to go together.

Regarding drinking any alcohol- I'm not seeing the problem for a Christian. Know your limits and drink in moderation and you'll be fine. This is an American Evangelical problem inherited from Prohibition (i.e. specifically it's usually only those who go to churches that don't use wine in communion or believe in the real presence who have this hang up- and the worst are those who used to drink in excess before they were 'saved').

drinking alcohol =/= alcoholism

 

[PaladinValer]

What are your thoughts on alcohol + faith? Thank you

What's the "+" for?

I smell a Straw Man.

 

[Krillin]

I'm a 1 or 2 on rare occasions type of person.

However, consider this video.

John Piper - Is it OK to drink alcohol? - YouTube

 

[seashale76]

The biggest problem really IS our culture, isn't it? Too many people are raised with the view that alcohol is always bad, evil, and leads to drunkenness. Instead of teaching moderation, only teetotalism is taught. Then, when kids leave home or want to rebel while even still living at home, what do they do? Ooh- alcohol is forbidden- therefore they feel as if they have to binge and get drunk to have fun.

In the meantime- there are plenty of people out there who drink regularly and have never been drunk. I'm one of them. I'll have wine or cider with meals. Moderation really is the best policy and it pays to have a healthy view of alcohol and food, and whatever else.

 

[Krillin]

Alcoholic wine is essential for communion. Using grape juice is an abomination. So- on that front- alcohol and faith are meant to go together.

Regarding drinking any alcohol- I'm not seeing the problem for a Christian. Know your limits and drink in moderation and you'll be fine. This is an American Evangelical problem inherited from Prohibition (i.e. specifically it's usually only those who go to churches that don't use wine in communion or believe in the real presence who have this hang up- and the worst are those who used to drink in excess before they were 'saved').

drinking alcohol =/= alcoholism

Just out of curiosity, why must the drink be alcoholic to be legit? I mean, if you are (for the sake of argument) fresh out of wine, then is everyone just out of luck?

 

[seashale76]

Just out of curiosity, why must the drink be alcoholic to be legit? I mean, if you are (for the sake of argument) fresh out of wine, then is everyone just out of luck?

We take the scriptures quite seriously when it comes to the elements used in communion. It says wine- we use wine. Then again- we believe in the real presence too- just as per scripture. The eucharist is extremely serious to us. People donate money to buy the wine used for communion in my parish. People also bake the phosphora (communion bread) every week that goes in the chalice (and how that is baked and what can be used is also very strict).

Let me put it to you this way: This idea of having non-alcoholic wine for communion wasn't even a discussion or question that occurred before the advent of the Temperance Movement in the United States starting back in the mid-1800s. Thomas Bramwell Welch invented the process to stop fermentation in 1869. That's how new this issue is. Wine is fermented. Every time the scriptures mention wine it means there's alcohol in it. Can't get around that.

ETA: Let me turn that on you. What if there was a grape juice shortage and only wine could be found? I guess there would be a lot of teetotaling churches that would stop having communion? In Iran- Christians have been sentenced to 80 lashes recently (iirc) for using wine for communion. Said punishment will likely kill them- but they realize the importance of using the proper elements in celebration of the eucharist- and did it anyway despite the dangers. It's that big of a deal.

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm a 1 or 2 on rare occasions type of person.

However, consider this video.

There is nothing to consider.

Jesus turned water to wine. There was no grape juice; pasteurization would not be invented for another roughly 1800 years. Even "new wine", called mustum, is merely wine that has had its fermentation suspended outside a force that would change its nature, like freezing or boiling. Even then, its inherent sweetness was evidence of at least some fermentation, however minute.

The word for wine in Greek is ionos (οἶνο&#962. When we look at, say, Jesus first miracle, the Holy Writ very clearly uses that word. Furthermore, it is clear that, not only was it wine, but it was good wine. Wine was commonly diluted, so the steward, who would have been trained to know purer wines from diluted wines, spoke about its quality.

The idea of alcohol is a sin flies right in the face of Holy Scripture itself. No one has to drink, and I for one don't, but it is clearly not a sin to drink, and it is required that the contents of the chalice during Holy Communion be wine. Must is allowed for alcoholics.

John Piper's argument is one of a Slippery Slope and Appeals to Consequences. It is an argument of Pietism, not Christianity. There is no room in orthodox, historic Christianity for pietism.

 

[Krillin]

There is nothing to consider.

Jesus turned water to wine. There was no grape juice; pasteurization would not be invented for another roughly 1800 years. Even "new wine", called mustum, is merely wine that has had its fermentation suspended outside a force that would change its nature, like freezing or boiling. Even then, its inherent sweetness was evidence of at least some fermentation, however minute.

The word for wine in Greek is ionos (οἶνο&#962. When we look at, say, Jesus first miracle, the Holy Writ very clearly uses that word. Furthermore, it is clear that, not only was it wine, but it was good wine. Wine was commonly diluted, so the steward, who would have been trained to know purer wines from diluted wines, spoke about its quality.

The idea of alcohol is a sin flies right in the face of Holy Scripture itself. No one has to drink, and I for one don't, but it is clearly not a sin to drink, and it is required that the contents of the chalice during Holy Communion be wine. Must is allowed for alcoholics.

John Piper's argument is one of a Slippery Slope and Appeals to Consequences. It is an argument of Pietism, not Christianity. There is no room in orthodox, historic Christianity for pietism.

It's not an argument. He's just saying be careful.