Alcohol...

jukesk9 said:

I have a question that I would like answered from a Baptist point of view. I do not understand why drinking alcohol is considered a sin. I have no problem accepting the fact and agreeing with you that DRUNKENESS is a sin. However, Jesus and his disciples drank wine. They weren't described as drunk. Drinking alcohol in moderation doesn't produce drunkeness. So, why is drinking alcohol sinful? Thanks.

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Drinking is not a sin IMO and I know many Baptist who agree with me. Drunkeness is but drinking, nah.

Frankie

GreenEyedLady said:

Here is PLENTY of scripture to back it up!
Now, I can provide more if you would like about drunkenss but you said you did not want scripture with drunkenss.
God makes is clear in His word.
GEL

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you lefted out one which clearly points out there was different types of wine.Also Drinking has a very bad track record in the old testament.

Proverbs 23:30-31 "they that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon wine when it red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright."
If you not to look at red wine that bubbles then it obvious there must be a wine that is weak. I know one lost friends. This is because beer is good for one thing : that is to get you drunk. Noone goes to the store and buy a six pack of Pepsi and sit down and drink all six of them yet a sinner knows this is what they do with beer.
AFASI wine was the only opinion (besides milk) the Jews had to drink besides water. Also carrying water in animal skins for days doesn't sound very good. Today we got many soft drinks, cool aid,fruit juices, milk, tea and coffee so there is really no reason why a christian should even risk being a stumbling block to someone else by drink strong drinks (our wine moves a lot) or beer.

P.S Yes I know Nyquil has alcohol (alcohol itself isn't evil) but the purpose of NyQuil is not the same as the purpose of wine and beer.

Many many studies have shown positive health benefits to very moderate drinking, in particular, 3-6 oz of red wine daily.
My husband nearly died in his early 30s from a sudden and totally unforeseen heart attack. In fact he was declared dead, but "brought back," and put on life support. I was told he would be a "vegetable" if he survived. I say all this so you understand how serious this was.
God was merciful and my husband had a nearly full recovery!!! (the dr's couldn't explain it, but we knew Who to give the credit to!!)
Anyway, his cardiologist told him to drink a small glass of red wine daily (other prescription meds too of course) and there is no way we're going to be so legalistic about alcohol that we ignore the dr's advice. In fact, I've become so convinced of the heart health benefits that I'm trying to drink a little wine a few times a week also (but it's hard for me because I hate the taste of it!)
I would be very offended and hurt if anyone considered me sinning if they saw me buying wine at the store (and I do tend to stock up when it's on sale, so it would be easy to see several bottles in my shopping cart and assume that we drink a LOT. Goes to show you that you shouldn't assume or judge).

kayanne said:

I would be very offended and hurt if anyone considered me sinning if they saw me buying wine at the store (and I do tend to stock up when it's on sale, so it would be easy to see several bottles in my shopping cart and assume that we drink a LOT. Goes to show you that you shouldn't assume or judge).

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The lost sinners will judge you . I found this out myself many years ago (in my youth) . Drinking without a doubt hurt a christian's testimony.

Frankie said:

Drinking is not a sin IMO and I know many Baptist who agree with me. Drunkeness is but drinking, nah.

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I tend to agree with you, but it begs the question, how does one define "drunkeness?"

Here is another question ... how many drinks does it take to start the process of getting drunk?

OracleX said:

Here is another question ... how many drinks does it take to start the process of getting drunk?

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It doesn't matter how many glasses. The scriptures say, don't drink strong drink.
Doctors can prescribe wine and pills and all kinds of things for people. Just because things are perscribed by a doctor does not mean its ok with GOD.
I am not going christian science on you or anything, but there are WAY too many people taking their doctors advice instead of the LORDS. ( my mother was this way, it drove me nuts Lord bless her soul)
For example, my doctor wanted to put me on anti-depressants after we lost our little girl. I had to tell him at 3 differant visists that I was not depressed!!! I did not want those things! He claims to be a christians and I told him, The Lord will do more for me than those pills. I never took them because I never needed them. He just thought I should be on them because of the tragety in my life.
Please don't get me wrong, I understand that people need medication. But sometimes the doctors think they know what is best for you when what you really need is to seek the Lord.
GEL
Anyhoooooo. Drinking is a no no for me and I am GLAD my church preaches against it! My marriage has NEVER been this good! And we are going on 10 years!

There are other questions you can add to this subject.

Like why drink? What is the purpose? Alcohol changes the chemistry in your body and takes away clear thinking. We are not suppose to be given our minds over to anything other than God.

RED that's ME said:

There are other questions you can add to this subject.

Like why drink? What is the purpose? Alcohol changes the chemistry in your body and takes away clear thinking. We are not suppose to be given our minds over to anything other than God.

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Amen my sister AMEN!

GreenEyedLady said:

Just because things are prescribed by a doctor does not mean its ok with GOD.

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I'll agree with that!

Smidlee said:

The lost sinners will judge you . I found this out myself many years ago (in my youth) . Drinking without a doubt hurt a christian's testimony.

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I have no idea how this relates to my post.

GreenEyedLady said:

It doesn't matter how many glasses. The scriptures say, don't drink strong drink.

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The NT makes a clear distinction between drinking too much and drinking a little--as others have mentioned the verses
"do not be drunk with wine wherein is excess" If God wanted NT Christians to drink NO wine He wouldn't have worded this verse the way He did.
"take a little wine for your stomach"--quite similar to my husband drinking a little wine for his heart.

All of the verses you quoted a while back were from the OT except 1. Now I'm not saying we should disregard the OT, but if you want to take the route you're on, I can start asking you about what kind of fabric your clothes are made of, how your house is built, and whether you stone your children if they ever exhibit rebelliousness.
Actually this could make a good thread (seriously) about OT law and how it relates to our lives today. There is definitely a lot of picking and choosing when it comes to what OT verses people want to use and what ones everyone overlooks.

But I digress.....

[/QUOTE]
Doctors can prescribe wine and pills and all kinds of things for people. Just because things are perscribed by a doctor does not mean its ok with GOD.GEL
Drinking is a no no for me and I am GLAD my church preaches against it! My marriage has NEVER been this good! And we are going on 10 years![/QUOTE]

Just because a church preaches against something doesn't mean that attitude is ok with God either. It's fine if you or anyone else chooses to abstain from alcohol. But to say any alcohol use whatsoever is a sin is elevating your personal preference to a command, and I think that is a far worse sin. You are adding to God's Word.
My marriage has never been this good either! And we just passed 20 years!! naahhh-nanaa--naah-naah!
(JUST JOKING THERE!) We can be happy for each other's successful marriages, for sure, even if we disagree about wine!
kayanne

edited because i forgot to say that the 1 NT verse you used was not a command against alcohol, just a narrative describing John the Baptist as a man who would not drink strong drink. When he is described as eating locusts, that's sure not a command either (PTL!!!)

Drinking was a problem in the early church. In 1 Timothy soberness is mentioned as a requirement for the leadership positions. Drunkenness is not allowed for deacons which would lead you to a conclusion that drunkenness was an issue, it's one of the basic requirements. It's clear for all to read. The pastor is to be blameless, sober, not given to wine. I can't find any room for any other view of this issue. I am a pastor, I was a deacon and an elder. I do not drink. I can't go to the hospital on a minutes notice if I were a drinker. If the Lord comes back today I will be sober, will you?
How much do you have to drink to be less than sober? The basic reason to drink is the answer to this question. The reason to drink is to not be sober.


1Ti 3:8
¶ Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

1Ti 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Amen my brother

GreenEyedLady is right on the mark, as well as others in this thread. Drinking in particular may not be expressly forbidden in the Bible, but drunkiness of course is. Those who "socially" drink do so for the express purpose of "loosening" themselves up for good conversation, etc. I see no other reason to drink regularly or casually.

I've seen my share of drinking people in my time, in the Air Force and in the work place. Nothing good comes of it, EVER!

Ask yourself why it is you want to drink fermented drinks instead of "unfermented" drinks. I doubt you'll come up with an excuse that jives with being a Christian.

--CK

eldermike said:

The reason to drink is to not be sober.

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REALLY??!! You know the motive of every person who every has had an alcoholic beverage??!! As I've said repeatedly (though it keeps being ignored) my husband drinks a SMALL amount of wine to improve his heart/cardiovascular health and increase his chance of living longer. I sometimes have a tiny bit too, for my own heart health. I don't do it to "not be sober"!!!!!!!! Why does everyone keep ignoring this point??? Am I invisible today???

I think some of you are being very rude and judgemental, and if I am finding you offensive I can only imagine how non-Christians would feel under these kinds of attitudes. There was a time when I refused to buy the wine for my husband, because I was too worried about "what people would think" if they saw it in my grocery cart. So I was refusing to do what my husband asked me to do, all for the sake of fearing what some people from my church might think if they saw me. Drinking a little wine is not a sin, but my refusing to submit to my husband's wishes certainly was. I'm glad I got over my unnecessary concerns about what people might think; yet it certainly does bother me to feel so looked down upon by some of you here.

Do those of you who condemn 3-6 oz of wine for heart health also avoid Nyquil and vanilla extract??

my husband drinks a SMALL amount of wine to improve his heart/cardiovascular health and increase his chance of living longer.

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Actually, I agree with this and so did Paul. This in my opinion is not what I consider "drinking". I don't say "I am going to have a few drinks of medicine". That is not drinking, drinking is having a drink, and another, and another. The only purpose of this is to not be sober. If a little wine is good for the heart then take a little wine.

Well said Eldermike

eldermike said:

Actually, I agree with this and so did Paul. This in my opinion is not what I consider "drinking". I don't say "I am going to have a few drinks of medicine". That is not drinking, drinking is having a drink, and another, and another. The only purpose of this is to not be sober. If a little wine is good for the heart then take a little wine.

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thank you very much for explaining that. i'll go back to being nice and sweet again.

btw, several posts back one of the mod's warned about debating, and i was trying to figure out who that warning was directed to. it just occurred to me that it was probably....ME!!!!
i consider this my "home forum" so i just jump right in to any debating going on here (but nowhere else). i just don't happen to use the baptist icon because i think of myself as a christian more than a baptist. plus, my church is an independent bible-church, but it is very much like a general assoc of regular baptists church, so from that standpoint i fit much better here than in the non-denom forum. it truly never crossed my mind that perhaps i was breaking any rules by debating here. oooops! :o

so please mr moderator--can this be my home and am i allowed to debate here?