Alcohol free Communion?

[Lupinus]

I haven't looked over every page in here but I am sure the topic of wine vs. grape juice for communion has been done to death so this isn't another of those threads. For the record I feel that it was wine in the cup at the last supper, it should be wine that we use for communion.

That said I was debating this with a certain friend who brought up a good point. What about people who can't consume alcohol? She used a few bad examples, such as children or recovering alcoholics. These people can take the small amount of alcohol involved IMO. But she used a few good examples as well, such as those with alcohol allergies or on medications where they can't even take regular cough syrup. These people who can't even consume the small amount of alcohol in communion are rare but they exist, thinking about it I personally know two who for medical reasons can't even take standard cough syrup due to the small amount of alcohol.

So how would it be handled for such people? Would grape juice then be used? Would the blood portion be omitted? Perhaps some sort of anointing or some such?

I still stand firm it should be wine, but am wondering what sort of exception would be made?

 

[DaSeminarian]

I haven't looked over every page in here but I am sure the topic of wine vs. grape juice for communion has been done to death so this isn't another of those threads. For the record I feel that it was wine in the cup at the last supper, it should be wine that we use for communion.

That said I was debating this with a certain friend who brought up a good point. What about people who can't consume alcohol? She used a few bad examples, such as children or recovering alcoholics. These people can take the small amount of alcohol involved IMO. But she used a few good examples as well, such as those with alcohol allergies or on medications where they can't even take regular cough syrup. These people who can't even consume the small amount of alcohol in communion are rare but they exist, thinking about it I personally know two who for medical reasons can't even take standard cough syrup due to the small amount of alcohol.

So how would it be handled for such people? Would grape juice then be used? Would the blood portion be omitted? Perhaps some sort of anointing or some such?

I still stand firm it should be wine, but am wondering what sort of exception would be made?

For one thing, grape juice was not really invented until Mr. Welch found a way to preserve the juice without it fermenting in the 1800s. The juice of the grapes was always fermented because of a lack of refrigeration.

As for alcoholics, many churches do provide for them with Grape juice, but many alcoholics still take the wine and it does not kick them off the wagon. Children who are confirmed take the wine. There is no illegality to them having a sip of wine from either the Common cup or the individual cup. This is the Body and Blood of our Lord that they are taking not some shot of alcohol for the sake of the drink.

 

[TCat]

I have a friend who has sworn off alcohol completely. For him it is a personal and sacred vow to abstain, fortunately my church offers both wine and grape juice, otherwise he would no longer take communion at all.

Doesn't this controversy go back to the fact that it's just wine or juice and just bread or crackers until the Word is combined with it. Is so then the Word is what makes whatever is being concecrated into the sacred body and blood, therefore it being juice or wine is moot and gets into legalism when we make it more than it is.

 

[Edial]

I haven't looked over every page in here but I am sure the topic of wine vs. grape juice for communion has been done to death so this isn't another of those threads. For the record I feel that it was wine in the cup at the last supper, it should be wine that we use for communion.

That said I was debating this with a certain friend who brought up a good point. What about people who can't consume alcohol? She used a few bad examples, such as children or recovering alcoholics. These people can take the small amount of alcohol involved IMO. But she used a few good examples as well, such as those with alcohol allergies or on medications where they can't even take regular cough syrup. These people who can't even consume the small amount of alcohol in communion are rare but they exist, thinking about it I personally know two who for medical reasons can't even take standard cough syrup due to the small amount of alcohol.

So how would it be handled for such people? Would grape juice then be used? Would the blood portion be omitted? Perhaps some sort of anointing or some such?

I still stand firm it should be wine, but am wondering what sort of exception would be made?

Although it most probably was wine, the Bible does not refer to it as "wine".

LK 22:17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

Grape juice as well as wine qualify to be the "fruit of the vine".

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Lupinus]

To address the posts the basically state that grape juice is acceptable in general terms, that wasn't really the question and to keep it from turning into the same old debate I'll say I don't agree and leave it as such.

DaSeminarian-
I'm taking it you don't agree in the use of grape juice in general (unless I misunderstood your post entirely) and agree on the children of recovering alcoholics. However how would you go about it for people that for medical reasons simply can't have the alcohol in the wine? People with things like allergies to it or on certain medicines?

 

[Zecryphon]

I haven't looked over every page in here but I am sure the topic of wine vs. grape juice for communion has been done to death so this isn't another of those threads. For the record I feel that it was wine in the cup at the last supper, it should be wine that we use for communion.

That said I was debating this with a certain friend who brought up a good point. What about people who can't consume alcohol? She used a few bad examples, such as children or recovering alcoholics. These people can take the small amount of alcohol involved IMO. But she used a few good examples as well, such as those with alcohol allergies or on medications where they can't even take regular cough syrup. These people who can't even consume the small amount of alcohol in communion are rare but they exist, thinking about it I personally know two who for medical reasons can't even take standard cough syrup due to the small amount of alcohol.

So how would it be handled for such people? Would grape juice then be used? Would the blood portion be omitted? Perhaps some sort of anointing or some such?

I still stand firm it should be wine, but am wondering what sort of exception would be made?

At my LCMS congregation we offer white grape juice for the people who, for whatever reason, can't have alcohol. We use white grape juice to clearly distinguish between the wine and the grape juice. And the elder tells you which is which as well.

 

[LilLamb219]

I've read (on here and other boards) that intinction would be feasible.

I haven't looked over every page in here but I am sure the topic of wine vs. grape juice for communion has been done to death so this isn't another of those threads. For the record I feel that it was wine in the cup at the last supper, it should be wine that we use for communion.

That said I was debating this with a certain friend who brought up a good point. What about people who can't consume alcohol? She used a few bad examples, such as children or recovering alcoholics. These people can take the small amount of alcohol involved IMO. But she used a few good examples as well, such as those with alcohol allergies or on medications where they can't even take regular cough syrup. These people who can't even consume the small amount of alcohol in communion are rare but they exist, thinking about it I personally know two who for medical reasons can't even take standard cough syrup due to the small amount of alcohol.

So how would it be handled for such people? Would grape juice then be used? Would the blood portion be omitted? Perhaps some sort of anointing or some such?

I still stand firm it should be wine, but am wondering what sort of exception would be made?

 

[Radiata]

Just repeating, it doesn't matter if it is sweet and sour sauce and cookies. The only important thing is that The body and blood are present in it. That's my take on it anyway.

And for the record, our church uses 1% alcohol and doesn't offer grapefruit. Even when I was not confirmed, we went up and recieved the blessing of the ushers and lay ministers. Just without the bread and wine.

An interesting thing is, at my church, we recieve the bread from a cup and the wine is served in little thimble sized cups on a tray.

 

[Lupinus]

Just repeating, it doesn't matter if it is sweet and sour sauce and cookies. The only important thing is that The body and blood are present in it.

 

[Edial]

I believe everyone here already presented that the grape juice could be used for people that are allergic to alchohol.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Our understanding is that while we believe "fruit of the vine" refers to wine, it is not wrong to use grape juice instead.

At a recent youth rally that I attended they served grape juice rather than wine. 1500 students were there and the cost to purchase enough wine for communion was astronomical.

 

[Aibrean]

we have non-alcoholic for those who need it.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

Should the sacrament be altered to suit the tastes of the crowd? I do not think it legalistic to maintain the good order of the sacrament as Christ instituted.

If an alcoholic is so influenced by a few drops of wine, then why isn't he also tempted by the aroma of 600 congregants who have just received wine and are then exhaling its vapors? And ssn't he likely to be seduced as well by the wine merely passing in front of him?

Pure 100% abstinence is also about NOT being in the presence of those who "indulge". Substituting grape juice does not go far enough for one so easily tempted.

If tincture would be too much of a risk, then why don't these extraneous vapors also come into play?

There are many alternative churches out there that use only grape juice that may provide safer haven for this .04 % than to suggest wine substitution.

For one who cannot handle the wine, just pass. Taking the bread would be enough.

Cookies might kill the diabetics. We have to be so careful these days.

Peace,
Cos

 

[KEPLER]

Just repeating, it doesn't matter if it is sweet and sour sauce and cookies. The only important thing is that The body and blood are present in it. That's my take on it anyway.

I suppose it would also be okay to baptize in Pepsi, rather than water? (Actually, that would justify the existence of Pepsi, an otherwise foul substance...(Sorry, Scott...I just had to! ))

And for the record, our church uses 1% alcohol and doesn't offer grapefruit. Even when I was not confirmed, we went up and recieved the blessing of the ushers and lay ministers. Just without the bread and wine.

Why would a church offer grapefruit? Wouldn't that endager people taking Lipitor or other statins? What about grapefruit that's been sacrificed to idols?

 

[filosofer]

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
I suspect the poster meant "grapejuice".

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

 

[KEPLER]

Ya think? So, there's no grapefruit-sacrificing quasi-cultic Lutheran churches out there?

That's a relief.

 

[Edial]

I suppose it would also be okay to baptize in Pepsi, rather than water? (Actually, that would justify the existence of Pepsi, an otherwise foul substance...(Sorry, Scott...I just had to! ))

Actually if there would be no water available, but just bottles of Pepsi someplace in the Twilight-Zone-type scenario ... and a person wanted to be baptized ...

Why would a church offer grapefruit? Wouldn't that endager people taking Lipitor or other statins? What about grapefruit that's been sacrificed to idols?

Probably meant grapejuice ... which could also have been sacrificed to idols.

 

[filosofer]

Ya think? So, there's no grapefruit-sacrificing quasi-cultic Lutheran churches out there?

That's a relief.

[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
I'm just glad that we don't have to write everything in German on this board... I would not be very erudite trying to remember German that I learned 45 years ago.

Of course, those who wanted, would have a field day with my misconstrued sentences/vocabulary.

In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Should the sacrament be altered to suit the tastes of the crowd? I do not think it legalistic to maintain the good order of the sacrament as Christ instituted.

If an alcoholic is so influenced by a few drops of wine, then why isn't he also tempted by the aroma of 600 congregants who have just received wine and are then exhaling its vapors? And ssn't he likely to be seduced as well by the wine merely passing in front of him?

Pure 100% abstinence is also about NOT being in the presence of those who "indulge". Substituting grape juice does not go far enough for one so easily tempted.

If tincture would be too much of a risk, then why don't these extraneous vapors also come into play?

There are many alternative churches out there that use only grape juice that may provide safer haven for this .04 % than to suggest wine substitution.

For one who cannot handle the wine, just pass. Taking the bread would be enough.

Cookies might kill the diabetics. We have to be so careful these days.

Peace,
Cos

Which is worse:

Substituting grape juice for wine, regardless of the reasons why

or

Completely ignoring Jesus' command to "take and drink" by forgoing the wine/juice completely?

Hmm...I know which side I'd err on, if you could actually call it an error.

 

[Radiata]

Why would a church offer grapefruit? Wouldn't that endager people taking Lipitor or other statins? What about grapefruit that's been sacrificed to idols?

Yea, sorry. I meant grape juice. Also, I am in no position to make philosophy on religion. My own interpretation on religion is most likely wrong. That's why I resort to the bible most of the time. But when situations like this arise, I just run my mouth (or my fingers) off like a moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm sorry.
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