Al-lah lied?

morningstar2651 · Dec 24, 2004

My apologies for not understanding. He doesn't lie; He decieves.

You have no qualms about calling Allah a liar. I have no qualms about quoting the Bible.

1 Kg.22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chr.18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

Jer.20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezek.14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Th.2:11 For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Montalban · Dec 24, 2004

morningstar2651 said:
My apologies for not understanding.

That's quite okay, what really isn't forgiveable is that you'd post your posts in that manner.

Monrningstar2651 said:
He doesn't lie; He decieves.
You have no qualms about calling Allah a liar. I have no qualms about quoting the Bible.
1 Kg.22:23 Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
2 Chr.18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
Jer.20:7 O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.

Ezek.14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Th.2:11 For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Why not start a new thread? (that is, if you're genuinely interested) You don't seem to be, you seem to object to me saying anything about Islam, based on the 'don't throw rocks in glass houses' theory, but oddly, you're immune to this yourself. I'd like to see you discuss this on your own thread

markie · Dec 24, 2004

I might post false information but I don't mean to, I don't slander just to slander there's on sense in it. Evidently at one time a moon god called Allah was worshipped, so what the pagans had all kind's of gods..

Montalban · Dec 24, 2004

You've turned this thread into a whinge against site management. Why not get back to the topic at hand?

ServantofTheOne · Dec 24, 2004

Farid, you said you are a christian from egypt, i would like to know how do you say "God" in your arabic language.

please correct me if i'm wrong, i believe you say "Allah".

if this is correct then your coreligionist is slandering the god you believe in. what do you think of this?

airren1 · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
No Christians worship 3 gods. All Christians worship one triune God.

What triune G-D? YHWH is One, you pray to G-D only, not to Jesus, but through Jesus. Jesus was not G-D in human form. Jesus is a god, 1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) , but not YHWH. To put Jesus equal to G-D is untrue. G-D is separate from Jesus, the Son is one with the Father ( meaning in agreement), just as a husband and wife are one, but they are not the same person. G-D first, then Jesus.

MAXX · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
You've turned this thread into a whinge against site management. Why not get back to the topic at hand?

Montalban , dont get angry afterall he is Muslim and moving on the false path and the most fundamentalist path

Bookofknowledge · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
Moslems believe that their god al-lah gave promises to the people of Israel, in covenant. One of these was to Abraham; father of many nations; through his sons; Isaac and Ishmael. Another promise was given to Isaac, that the Messiah would be sent to his people.

Now al-lah as promised in the Bible continued to give prophets to the peoples of Isaac (Moslems count 25 people as being prophet - See Appendix below). Now we see that after Isaac, there is a number of prophets coming to the Jews until Jesus, being the last. Suddenly, al-lah, if we are to believe the Moslems gets fed up with the Jews and moves his mantle of truth to the Arabs - even though there's no promise with them! The only 'covenant' I'm aware of is the one mentioned in the Bible, and it's not with Ishmael. The fact that they believe al-lah continued to send prophets to the Jews shows that, despite their attempts to re-work Ishmael's legitimacy, recognise that the convent was NOT with him, but with Isaac.

Where is the book of Ishmael that this prophet took with him when he founded the Arab tribes? Surely, the Jews too, would be interested to know what words of God were revealed to the Arabs.

Why did al-lah break his promise?

APPENDIX
"The following are listed as prophets in the Qur'an; their Biblical names are given in parentheses when possible:
Adam آدم
Idris (Enoch) ادريس
Nuh (Noah) نوح
Hud (Heber) هود
Saleh (Shelah) صالح
Ibrahim (Abraham) ابراهيم
Lut (Lot) لوط
Ismail (Ishmael) اسماعيل
Ishaq (Isaac) اسحاق
Yaqub (Jacob) يعقوب
Yusuf (Joseph) يوسف
Shoaib (Jethro) شعيب
Musa (Moses) موسى
Harun (Aaron) هارون
Daud (David) داود
Sulayman (Solomon) سليمان
Ayub (Job) أيوب
Ilyas (Elias) إلياس
Zulkifl (possibly Ezekiel) ذو الكفل
Al-Yasa (Elisha) اليسع
Yunus (Jonah) يونس
Zakariya (Zechariah) زكريا
Yahya (John the Baptist) يحيى
Isa (Jesus) عيسى
Muhammad محمد
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam

Allah made promise to whome and in which book? your talking about another promise given to Isaac (AS) can you please give reference.... I would like to read.

Montalban · Dec 24, 2004

Bookofknowledge said:
Allah made promise to whome and in which book? your talking about another promise given to Isaac (AS) can you please give reference.... I would like to read.

I'm asking you why did Al-lah give a promise to the House of Israel; evidenced in the fact that they've got a whole lot of prophets; and then suddenly *bang* al-lah changes his mind and gives up on them and goes to the Arabs

Also, I asked a question you've ignored... where is the book of Ishmael? If he is a prophet, what did he say?

airren1 · Dec 24, 2004

morningstar2651 said:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food ... she took of the fruit therof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

He can lie.

What does those verses prove, surely they do not prove that G-D is a liar. After they ate of the Tree of Knowledge, they began to die as G-D told them.

morningstar2651 · Dec 24, 2004

for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Meaning -- You will die on that day.

And if God was worried about them dying, then why does he refuse to let them eat from the tree of life?

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Bookofknowledge · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
I'm asking you why did Al-lah give a promise to the House of Israel; evidenced in the fact that they've got a whole lot of prophets; and then suddenly *bang* al-lah changes his mind and gives up on them and goes to the Arabs

Also, I asked a question you've ignored... where is the book of Ishmael? If he is a prophet, what did he say?

Allah gave a promise to the house of Israel?

It's true that Allah raised many prophets among the people of Israel but are you considering this as promise of Allah that he will not raise a prophet outside the community of Israel?

I have to research on the second question but let me ask you this, do you assume Allah blessed each prophet with book? do you assume Allah promised each prophet that He will protect the book which is revealed to them?

you ignored the reference I asked you with regards to Allah's another promise to Isaac (AS)... looking forward to hear from you.

Montalban · Dec 24, 2004

morningstar2651 said:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Meaning -- You will die on that day.

And if God was worried about them dying, then why does he refuse to let them eat from the tree of life?

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

You have no real intent on discussion. I suggested that if you want to discuss the Bible you should start your own thread.

Instead you repeat a verse I've already responded to... when you posted it not more than a few days ago.

Montalban · Dec 24, 2004

Bookofknowledge said:
Allah gave a promise to the house of Israel?

It's true that Allah raised many prophets among the people of Israel but are you considering this as promise of Allah that he will not raise a prophet outside the community of Israel?

I have to research on the second question but let me ask you this, do you assume Allah blessed each prophet with book? do you assume Allah promised each prophet that He will prophet the book which is revealed to them?

you ignored the reference I asked you with regards to Allah's another promise to Isaac (AS)... looking forward to hear from you.

Firstly, I don't believe that Adam was a 'prophet', nor Ishamel, therefore I would not expect them to write anything. However you believe that God sent Ishmael as a prophet... what purpose is there to send a messenger with no message?

As for the promise in the Bible, I've already extensively quoted it in the debate Isaac or Ishmael. Why do you believe your god would send prophet after prophet after prophet to the Jews, and then switch to a non-Jew?

This is closely related to that other thread; Muslims try to suggest that Ishmael was a prophet so as to justify why al-lah would later swap to his descendants. Although I've yet to see any promise to Ishamel. As I said, you guys need to get your stories straight. On that other thread Moslems were arguing for the fact that Ishmael was given the covenant... that he was a legitimate son of Abraham.

Bookofknowledge · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
Firstly, I don't believe that Adam was a 'prophet', nor Ishamel, therefore I would not expect them to write anything. However you believe that God sent Ishmael as a prophet... what purpose is there to send a messenger with no message?

As for the promise in the Bible, I've already extensively quoted it in the debate Isaac or Ishmael. Why do you believe your god would send prophet after prophet after prophet to the Jews, and then switch to a non-Jew?

This is closely related to that other thread; Muslims try to suggest that Ishmael was a prophet so as to justify why al-lah would later swap to his descendants. Although I've yet to see any promise to Ishamel. As I said, you guys need to get your stories straight. On that other thread Moslems were arguing for the fact that Ishmael was given the covenant... that he was a legitimate son of Abraham.

you have to be clear on the definition of the word "Message" because this can be a complete book or few oral commandments from GOD revealed to prophets.

People of Moses were blessed with nine signs still they doubt the message and rab of Moses. Allah said He has not sent any punishment prior that He sent a messenger to warn the people... If Allah sent so many prophets to people of Isreal then imagine how stubborn these people were that Allah had to send so many prophets before sending the punishment...

we muslims do not descriminate against any messenger of Allah. the people of Moses (AS) followed the commands revealed to prophet same with jesus (AS) and we muslims follow Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

morningstar2651 · Dec 24, 2004

Montalban said:
You have no real intent on discussion. I suggested that if you want to discuss the Bible you should start your own thread.

Instead you repeat a verse I've already responded to... when you posted it not more than a few days ago.

Egads man, I was just responding to airren1.

My problem is not with Christianity; it is with hypocrisy.

markie · Dec 24, 2004

airren1 said:
What triune G-D? YHWH is One, you pray to G-D only, not to Jesus, but through Jesus. Jesus was not G-D in human form. Jesus is a god, 1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) , but not YHWH. To put Jesus equal to G-D is untrue. G-D is separate from Jesus, the Son is one with the Father ( meaning in agreement), just as a husband and wife are one, but they are not the same person. G-D first, then Jesus.

What about Philemmon 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Are you going to do like the Muslim's do and take those verses out because you may not agree with them. I think God should be worshipped alone thorough His son Jesus Christ, but I don''t think Jesus is God and I don't think that's what Paul meant. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Montalban · Dec 25, 2004

morningstar2651 said:
Egads man, I was just responding to airren1.

My problem is not with Christianity; it is with hypocrisy.

Yet you alone feel that you have the right to criticse Christianity and Islam, (you claim that you do so equally, but I've asked you three times already where you have done so, of Islam).

Montalban · Dec 25, 2004

Bookofknowledge said:
you have to be clear on the definition of the word "Message" because this can be a complete book or few oral commandments from GOD revealed to prophets.

*yawn* your evasiveness is getting boring. What teachings did Ishmael bring? Why is he a prophet?

Bookofknowledge said:
People of Moses were blessed with nine signs still they doubt the message and rab of Moses. Allah said He has not sent any punishment prior that He sent a messenger to warn the people... If Allah sent so many prophets to people of Israel then imagine how stubborn these people were that Allah had to send so many prophets before sending the punishment...

Why did al-lah take his message from the Jews and give it to the Arabs? Why do you think God would make a promise to the Jews; evidenced by successive dealings with them through the prophets, and then switch to another people who seemingly never practiced any of his teachings - because you're unprepared to show me what message prophet Ishmael gave. Consider that you believe that Muhammed was promised/predicted in the Bible, why would God give such a promise to them, and not the Arabs?

Bookofknowledge said:
we Muslims do not discriminate against any messenger of Allah. the people of Moses (AS) followed the commands revealed to prophet same with Jesus and we Muslims follow Prophet Muhammad

Whilst that is in the Koran, it is also in the Koran that Muhammad is greater, it's another of your mutually refuting passages

One passage says there are no distinctions
2:285
We make no distinction between any of His messengers.
Another says the opposite...
2:253
Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree.

Montalban · Dec 25, 2004

Bookofknowledge said:
you have to be clear on the definition of the word "Message" because this can be a complete book or few oral commandments from GOD revealed to prophets.

People of Moses were blessed with nine signs still they doubt the message and rab of Moses. Allah said He has not sent any punishment prior that He sent a messenger to warn the people... If Allah sent so many prophets to people of Isreal then imagine how stubborn these people were that Allah had to send so many prophets before sending the punishment...

we muslims do not descriminate against any messenger of Allah. the people of Moses followed the commands revealed to prophet same with jesus and we muslims follow Prophet Muhammad

I reminded you guys to keep your stories straight. You asked what convenant was made?

See Muslim's post on the thread Isaac or Ishmael? Post #93

Al-lah lied?

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