Age of Accountibility

[achristiantech]

We hear alot about the "age of accountibility". I'm not clear on where in scripture it refers to this nor do I have a good understanding what this really means. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

[MrPolo]

Deuteronomy 1:39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad—they will enter the land.

The "age of accountability" is nothing defined. Certainly the spiritual and reasoning maturity of individuals differs. Usually you will hear people say ages 4-7 or something like that. Some might also say younger than that as well.

 

[simonthezealot]

The age of accountability would be probably better described as when you know your sinful actions are sinful actions then your old enough to be accountable to them.

 

[Tangible]

Accountable to whom?

 

[ThomasDa]

We hear alot about the "age of accountibility". I'm not clear on where in scripture it refers to this nor do I have a good understanding what this really means. Your thoughts are welcome.

You might want to start by looking in Ex. 30:14; 38:26.

 

[Remnant 01]

We hear alot about the "age of accountibility". I'm not clear on where in scripture it refers to this nor do I have a good understanding what this really means. Your thoughts are welcome.

You might want to start by looking in Ex. 30:14; 38:26.

Seems like the Jewish age of accountability is 20 according to the scriptures given by Thomas, and even more so by this scripture in Numbers.

Numbers 14:29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me.

 

[Dorothea]

We hear alot about the "age of accountibility". I'm not clear on where in scripture it refers to this nor do I have a good understanding what this really means. Your thoughts are welcome.

I don't believe it is in scripture. Here's something interesting I just read last night in a book I'm reading about why children are baptized, chrismated, and given the Eucharist when they are babies or very young children:



"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt 28:19-20).

This reading shows a great deal about what it means to be a member of the Church: it means to be a disciple, and the way to become a disciple is to be baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity. To be a disciple means to have a relationship with God that will never be taken away. This is not merely the relationship of creature and Creator. That relationship is already fixed at physical birth, and no human agent can do anything about it for good or ill. The relationship begun at baptism refers to the relationship in which the individual meets God on a personal level.

The whole point of Christian baptism is that the person being baptized should find his or her identify in the Savior. This process commences when the person identifies with Jesus in the Mystery of Baptism, and this finds his or her identify as a member of the body of Christ. Later, this identity grows to become the dominant and eternal part of the person's complete identity. This is the indeliable mark of baptism: a person is given a new identity within the Body of Christ and starts a new, eternal life.

For this reason, an older person is often given a new name in baptism in order to mark the transition from one life to another. The newly baptized (or "neophyte," meaning "newly illumined" or "newly enlightened") is no longer merely born a child of the physical body, which is wonderful enough. He or she is now a child of the light, a child of the Kingdom. From the moment he or she emerges from the water, a new life begins--marked not by physical characteristics which remain the same, but by spiritual experience. This spiritual experience is that of being "enlightened." This enlightenment is not necessarily obvious when it comes to the mind, but finds its expression at a much deeper and more eternal level--the level of awareness, the level of the heart.

This is one reason the Orthodox Church has never withheld baptism from young children. Following the example of the New Testament, young children are included in the members of households who are brought into the Church. In answer to those who ask whether a child is able to understand what is happening to him, most Orthodox would reply that even an adult does not understand what happens when he participates in the Holy Mysteries. Belonging to the Church is not a matter of intellectual choice, but a matter of God gathering His people.

The result of this way of thinking is that children, even babes in arms, are also brought for Holy Communion from the time they are baptized. Children do not hold some sort of second-class position until adolescence, as may be the case in other traditions. On the contrary, when they leave the church building shortly after baptism, they are as much members of the Church, members of the Body of Christ, as the most high-ranking bishop.

(from the book "Bread & Water, Wine & Oil" by Fr. Meletios Webber)

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

This concept is not a bibilical one...it is man-made used to justify "believer's baptism" in many churches.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

This concept is not a bibilical one...it is man-made used to justify "believer's baptism" in many churches.

Nor was it ever taught by The Church.

On that note, I find it of particular interest that there is no biblical example of baptism being denied because of age.

Come to think of it... is there a scriptural example of someone being denied baptism for any reason?

Forgive me...

 

[ThomasDa]

Seems like the Jewish age of accountability is 20 according to the scriptures given by Thomas, and even more so by this scripture in Numbers.

Numbers 14:29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me.

Jews are not singled out there.

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

I think it's irresponsible to claim that it's a teaching found in the Bible. All the verses used to support it are taken horrible out of context.

I admit, I cannot CONCEIVE of a situation where God would be glorified in the damning of infants, but I am not God and I do not see clearly.



If I were asked a person about what happens to babies, I can only give the honest answer 'I don't know'. But what I DO know is that the Judge of the Earth will do what is right, and in the end, I will agree with Him.

 

[ThomasDa]

Nor was it ever taught by The Church.

On that note, I find it of particular interest that there is no biblical example of baptism being denied because of age.

Come to think of it... is there a scriptural example of someone being denied baptism for any reason?

Forgive me...

There is no mention of baptism of children in the Bible.
The Bible admonishes us to count the cost and not to look back.
This is the most serious decision we will make in our lifetime.
Not something a child or an immature person is able to do.
Baptizing a child just gets them wet. No more, no less.

 

[E.C.]

There is no mention of baptism of children in the Bible.
The Bible admonishes us to count the cost and not to look back.
This is the most serious decision we will make in our lifetime.
Not something a child or an immature person is able to do.
Baptizing a child just gets them wet. No more, no less.

If a child can not decide or discern between good and evil than why did they want to see Jesus as described in the Gospels?


Also, wouldn't this be putting a cap on God's Love?

 

[ThomasDa]

If a child can not decide or discern between good and evil than why did they want to see Jesus as described in the Gospels?


Also, wouldn't this be putting a cap on God's Love?

Children wanting to see Jesus does not speak to their ability to make life altering, life changing decisions any more than children wanthing to see a movie star.
This is not "putting a cap on God's Love" God will offer everyone salvation in His own time and when it is best for them.
Obviously there is a misunderstanding about God's plan of salvation for mankind here.

 

[Dorothea]

There is no mention of baptism of children in the Bible.
The Bible admonishes us to count the cost and not to look back.
This is the most serious decision we will make in our lifetime.
Not something a child or an immature person is able to do.
Baptizing a child just gets them wet. No more, no less.

Baptism is the dying and resurrecting with Christ. A new identity through the Savior and becoming part of the Body of Christ. Intellect and knowledge are not most important. Experiencing God is found in the heart, not the mind. And there's no reason to be cruel and exclude children from being a part of the Body of Christ just because of their innocence and not knowing all that adults know. In some circumstances, that puts them ahead of the adults.

 

[Tangible]

There is no mention of baptism of children in the Bible.

"All nations" includes infants and children.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt 28:19)


"Households" included infants and children.

And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us. (Acts 16:15)

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. (I Cor. 1: 14-16)

The Bible admonishes us to count the cost and not to look back.

Are you seriously suggesting that even an adult can count the full cost of discipleship and never look back? Really?

This is the most serious decision we will make in our lifetime.
Not something a child or an immature person is able to do.

Nor an adult, I would submit. We don't and can't choose to be saved. God chooses to save us.

Baptizing a child just gets them wet. No more, no less.

I have 2000 years of continuous church history here that disagrees with you.

I also have scripture, such as:

Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

 

[ThomasDa]

Baptism is the dying and resurrecting with Christ. A new identity through the Savior and becoming part of the Body of Christ. Intellect and knowledge are not most important. Experiencing God is found in the heart, not the mind. And there's no reason to be cruel and exclude children from being a part of the Body of Christ just because of their innocence and not knowing all that adults know. In some circumstances, that puts them ahead of the adults.

Obviously you didn't read Post #14.
I am not being cruel or excluding children. I'm just telling you that they will be called in God's own time, a time when they are able to understand what they are signing up for.

 

[E.C.]

Obviously you didn't read Post #14.
I am not being cruel or excluding children. I'm just telling you that they will be called in God's own time, a time when they are able to understand what they are signing up for.

How can they understand if they are not taught?

 

[Tangible]

Also, no one answered my earlier question: Accountable to whom?

 

[ThomasDa]

E.C. How can they understand if they are not taught?

I didn't say they would not be taught.
Where did that come from?