Affirmative Action

zoink · Nov 16, 2005

Neverstop said:
AA is a way for telling minorities that the US screwed up big-time and now it is the responsibility of the US to disabuse the pervasive effects of racism.

Because we infringed on the rights of others in the past, we then must infringe on the rights of others today?

Sincerely,
zoink

k · Nov 16, 2005

Osel said:
A white man and a black man are taking aptitude tests to become police officers.

The white man scores higher than the black man.

The black man is hired because the government says there aren't enough "minorities" on the squad.

Race is not the issue. Whoever scored higher on the test should be given the job because he is more qualified.

Give us a specific example of this happening, with all the details.

MachZer0 · Nov 16, 2005

Neverstop said:
AA does not take lower qualified candidates over better qualified ones.

If not, then what exactly does AA do?

Jetgirl · Nov 16, 2005

Crusader05 said:
So how is this an excuse for black men having less access to education and therefore making less money throughout their lives then white men? And the similar situation with black women?

I actually said nothing about black people in my post. Since it is oft stated that white women are the generally the ones most benefiting from AA, I thought this might be an illustrative example.

Women in general also make less money throughout their lives, as that graph I found shows.

We could make that graph look "equal", but only by forcing inequality into the system to correct for it.

praying · Nov 16, 2005

12volt_man said:
If liberals are sincere about affirmative action, then why aren't they pushing for more white players in the N.B.A.?

Ohh you were serious.

praying · Nov 16, 2005

MethodMan said:
Not a myth at all considering ALL Gov't contracts require EEOC declarations and require a percentage minimum number of minorities be employed by said company.

absolutley false. Read the government website.

MethodMan · Nov 16, 2005

mhatten said:
absolutley false. Read the governemtn website.

Ever done any work for NYCTA? MARTA? WAMATA?

MachZer0 · Nov 16, 2005

Neverstop said:
It seems there are many myths about AA. This is a basic rundown: Say there are two candidates, equally qualified, the minority would get the preference. If there are two candidates and the minority is not as qualified, then AA does not trump the one MORE qualified.

Here's a little information how AA works in college admissions.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams012903.asp

AA does exactly what you claim it doesn't do. That is, it accepts lesser qualified individuals, based on the color of their skin. Please note that the accepted individual need not be a victim of racism and the rejected individual need not be guilty of racism. It is based solely on skin color.

praying · Nov 16, 2005

What are the Part 60-2 Regulations?

The Part 60-2 regulations are the Department of Labor's affirmative action regulations that apply to certain federal contractors and subcontractors. As part of its efforts to strengthen civil rights enforcement and close the pay gap, the 41 CFR Part 60-2 proposal is the second stage of OFCCP's regulatory reform efforts that started with revision of the Part 60-1 regulations in 1997. On Monday, November 13, 2000, the Federal Register will publish the Department's revisions to the Executive Order 11246 affirmative action regulations.

The Executive Order prohibits federal contractors and federally assisted construction contractors and subcontractors, who do over $10,000 in Federal Government business in one year, from discriminating in employment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

What are the major objectives of the changes to the regulations?

The regulations will:

Reduce the size and complexity of the written affirmative action program by:

Replacing the workforce analysis with a one-page organizational profile;

Simplifying the 8 factor availability analysis to 2 factors; and

Reducing the number of required elements of the AAP from 10 to 4.

Provide for the annual submission of an Equal Opportunity Survey from designated contractors, requesting summary personnel and compensation data;

Ensure confidentiality and provide protections from disclosure of submitted data; and

Reaffirm and strengthen the no quota policy.

Goals, Not Quotas: The regulations reaffirm that contractors are not judged to be in compliance by whether or not they have met numerical goals, but by demonstrated good faith efforts. This would codify the existing goals directive.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/cfr/41cfr/60_2faqs.htm

I have come to realize that most people have no real clue how affirmative action works, just like race and poverty preconceived notions trump facts.

praying · Nov 16, 2005

MachZer0 said:
Here's a little information how AA works in college admissions.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams012903.asp

AA does exactly what you claim it doesn't do. That is, it accepts lesser qualified individuals, based on the color of their skin. Please note that the accepted individual need not be a victim of racism and the rejected individual need not be guilty of racism. It is based solely on skin color.

AA in college admissions is a differnt animal than job applicants.

k · Nov 16, 2005

zoink said:
Because we infringed on the rights of others in the past, we then must infringe on the rights of others today?

Sincerely,
zoink

To say that slavery and lynchings were merely "infringing" on peoples' rights is to do a disservice to the historocity of US racism.

In addition, how are we infringing on the rights of people today w/ AA?

praying · Nov 16, 2005

My personal opinion AA should be used in college admissions and not for job applicants, however EEOC program should still be required.

Each contracting agency in the Executive Branch of government must include the equal opportunity clause in each of its nonexempt government contracts. The equal opportunity clause requires that the contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/ofccp/aa.htm

k · Nov 16, 2005

mhatten said:
My personal opinion AA should be used in college admissions and not for job applicants, however EEOC program should still be required.

Each contracting agency in the Executive Branch of government must include the equal opportunity clause in each of its nonexempt government contracts. The equal opportunity clause requires that the contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, color, religion, sex or national origin.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/ofccp/aa.htm

Why not jobs?

praying · Nov 16, 2005

Neverstop said:
Why not jobs?

I just don't think it is necessary, with EEOC guidelines and the ability to prosecute. Perhaps in the construction industry which is notorius for discrimination.

k · Nov 16, 2005

mhatten said:
I just don't think it is necessary, with EEOC guidelines and the ability to prosecute. Perhaps in the construction industry which is notorius for discrimination.

I work in the construction trade here in Boston...the racism is horrible.

12volt_man · Nov 16, 2005

mhatten said:
Ohh you were serious.

Yes. I was serious.

If liberals are going to be consistent, then why aren't they pushing for equal representation of white players in the N.B.A.?

12volt_man · Nov 16, 2005

Neverstop said:
I work in the construction trade here in Boston...the racism is horrible.

But I thought Boston was a Democrat haven.

praying · Nov 16, 2005

12volt_man said:
Yes. I was serious.

If liberals are going to be consistent, then why aren't they pushing for equal representation of white players in the N.B.A.?

Because white men can't jump.

Didn't you see the movie?

How do you suppose a "liberal" should address this question?

12volt_man · Nov 16, 2005

mhatten said:
Because white men can't jump.

Didn't you see the movie?

But isn't that all the more reason they need the nanny state to come in and level the playing field?

How do you suppose a "liberal" should address this question?

If they're going to be consistent, then they should say, "if we are going to have a colorblind society, then we must legislate that N.B.A. teams give preference to white players."

BarbB · Nov 16, 2005

nvxplorer said:
In principle, I agree with you. In practice, things are different. As someone who did the hiring for a small, family owned business, I can attest that some business owners will not hire minorities (blacks, in this case), regardless of qualifications.

Then what you did was illegal. You did the hiring - you were responsible, not the company.

You've definitely had the most appalling experiences in your life.

Affirmative Action

Affirmative Action...

should be implemented in employment and college acceptance

should be implemented in employment but not college acceptance

should be implemented in college acceptance but not employment

should be used for neither employment nor college acceptence

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