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Within Reason

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The debate regarding what is meant in Genesis to be made in God's image long pre-dates the existence of the SDA church. Im not sure how it connects to this present discussion?
Do a small study on "image" and "likeness" in scripture, and see the relevancy of how God created the beings (both angelic and mankind, and animal).

The best presentation that I know of Seventh-day Adventist doctrines are found in this series:


If anyone knows of a better series let me know.
 
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Dale

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Within Reason,

I take it that although you identify yourself as "Protestant" in your Avatar, you are actually an SDA.

I have a question about your explanation of possession and exorcism. You say that Satan placed ideas into the mind of Judas. This is fair enough, but does the condition of a possessed person go further than this? It looks like it does. If Judas' problem is that he was possessed by Satan, why didn't Jesus exorcise Judas, casting out Satan, just as Jesus did to demons on numerous other occasions?

It looks like there is a difference between a demon tempting a person and a demon possessing a person. The question remains, if demons are physical, and not spirits, how do they have access to human spirits?
 
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Dale

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Justin: "The OP uses no references to support his strawman."

What "strawman" needs supporting?

Justin: "Can someone Provide some references to support the idea that even one SDA holds this position regarding angels and demons, then we’ll have something to talk about."

What position is that?
 
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Within Reason

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... The Gospels contradict Ellen White's assumption that demons must have actual bodies, a notion that comes from her denial of a soul. ...
As far as is shown, EGW, based her belief upon scripture, which she cited prolifically.

As for as EGW denying the existence of "a soul", this is incorrect. EGW acknowledges what the Bible says about "soul", while rejecting the dualistic Platonic philosophy of the pagan/heathen.

So, EGW continually uses the word "soul", and if typed into the Seventh-day Adventist online search of just EGW writings, we find the word "soul" used 42,224 times (though granted there are many duplicates and compilations to eliminate in that number) - Ellen G. White Writings
 
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Within Reason

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Within Reason,

...I have a question about your explanation of possession and exorcism. You say that Satan placed ideas into the mind of Judas. This is fair enough, but does the condition of a possessed person go further than this?
Yes, which is what I had stated. The ideas are planted, like seed, and then grow and bear fruit, which becomes possession. The thoughts of satan are now the thoughts of the individual, and satan (devils) moulds the person more and more into his character. The possessed person's will is submitted to the satanic will, and thus is under the total control of the devil/s, and they can then be manipulated in their speech, movement, etc. (I gave hypnosis as the common example) Satan works through mediums non-living and living (persons).

King Saul is a good example.
 
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Within Reason

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Within Reason,

I take it that although you identify yourself as "Protestant" in your Avatar ...
I also know about Catholicism, Mormonism (LDS), WTS/JW, Baptists, Methodists and many others, including Islam, etc., and can cite their material in what they teach also.

For instance, ex-SDA cite all manner of SDA material, do you count them as SDA simply because they cite and know SDA theology? What of the Catholic apologist who does the same for Baptist theology, do you count that Catholic as Baptist?

I wouldn't take my silence as either admission or non-admission on anything. You may assume what you will, but it will serve no purpose in answering your OP either way, even if I was secretly Ted Wilson himself (I am not).
 
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Within Reason

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Even the so called "Nicene Creed", acknowledges that which is "visible" and "invisible", but says nothing about aethereal. Invisibility, is not the same as aethereality. Invisible, simply means, 'not seen', and in most cases the angels (good or evil) are not seen, and remain hid from sight, covering their glory of light. Light is used, even in modern science, to attempt cloaking - Are Cloaking Devices Coming? Metalens-Shaped Light May Lead The Way
 
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eleos1954

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It's spiritual warfare .... as far as Judas ... no doubt he had many many many opportunities to repent of his sin ... like we all have ..... Judas committed blasphemy .... continuous rejection of the Holy Spirit to the point of his final and most atrocious sin ... complete betrayal of our Lord.

Ephesians 6:12
New Living Translation
For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.
 
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Dale

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According to Ellen White, Satan naturally has a physical body and when the wicked are raised from the dead in the Second Resurrection, he sees an opportunity.

"Now Satan prepares for a last mighty struggle for the supremacy. While deprived of his power and cut off from his work of deception, the prince of evil was miserable and dejected; but as the wicked dead are raised and he sees the vast multitudes upon his side, his hopes revive, and he determines not to yield the great controversy. He will marshal all the armies of the lost under his banner and through them endeavor to execute his plans. The wicked are Satan's captives."

Book Five of Conflict of the Ages,The Great Controversy, Chapter 42: The Controversy Ended
Kindle Location 48425-29


"The presence of Christ having been removed, Satan works wonders to support his claims. He makes the weak strong and inspires all with his own spirit and energy. He proposes to lead them against the camp of the saints and to take possession of the City of God. With fiendish exultation he points to the
unnumbered millions who have been raised from the dead and declares that as their leader he is well able to overthrow the city and regain his throne and his kingdom."


Book Five of Conflict of the Ages,The Great Controversy, Chapter 42: The Controversy Ended
Kindle Location 48434-37

Again, Ellen White sees Satan as having a physical body and wielding power in that fashion, as a warrior. After the dead are raised, Satan forms them into an army to storm the City of God, New Jerusalem.
 
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Justin BT

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If anyone knows of a better series let me know.

made you sharing the one hour video to allow us to search for the spot where the ‘false SDA doctrine of angels and demons’ is described? Or to show that the SDA doctrine is not false?

We’re you expecting everyone to spend an hour watching it? Perhaps you could provide a link to the ‘false doctrine’ part?
 
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Within Reason

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True, but this was already admitted with the citation I provided earlier. Satan is a celestial (heavenly) being. All the angels are celestial beings, having celestial bodies.

Notice what Jesus and Paul stated:

Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.​

Jesus stated that in the respective resurrection, the saints would have physical glorified bodies, as the angels do, and Paul re-iterates this, saying that those glorified bodies would be like Jesus own resurrected and glorified body.

Where is EGW, or even Seventh-day Adventists wrong for this position?
 
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Justin BT

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Again, Ellen White sees Satan as having a physical body and wielding power in that fashion, as a warrior. After the dead are raised, Satan forms them into an army to storm the City of God, New Jerusalem.

Ellen white doesn’t say Satan takes on a human physical body here at all. At least not in the way Jesus did. Or are you asserting it’s controversial that Satan might be able to appear to humans in any form at all?
 
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Within Reason

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I do not expect anyone to do anything. I simply provided the reference.

If you want something more specific, in writing, you might try "The Truth About Angels" (book - here), or this single chapter on the subject:

The Great Controversy, Chapter 31, The Agency of Evil Spirits


Those are the best places that I know that are easy to search. Other works that might be included to consider are "Patriarchs and Prophets" (first few chapters), "Early Writings", and "Story of Redemption", as related to the OP on Angels/Devils and their nature.
 
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Within Reason

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I am trying to understand you. Please write more precisely.

Also, You haven’t answered my question.
I certainly did:

Jesus stated that in the respective resurrection, the saints would have physical glorified bodies, as the angels do, and Paul re-iterates this, saying that those glorified bodies would be like Jesus own resurrected and glorified body.

Please read carefully, in that the difference is in the words "physical glorified bodies" as angels have, and "glorified bodies ... like Jesus own resurrected and glorified body". Both Angels and Mankind would then have glorified bodies, but each having their own nature. A dog and cat both have physical bodies, but both of differing flesh natures, as was stated in 1 Corinthians 15.
 
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Justin BT

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Yes, 1 Cor 15:40 explicitly states that heavenly and earthly bodies are different. It goes on to say that the bodies are no more the same than the sun compared to the moon or the stars.

So much so that the glory/splendor/brightness/praiseworthyness of the heavenly type of body is also different to the earthly type.

Where is the controversial element to this? Would not SDA’s and Christians throughout history agree on this?
 
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DNB

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You are entirely correct on this issue, Eleos, and I commend you on qualifying your position with the quintessential Biblical passages on this issue. These texts are as didactic as they come, as far as the resurrection from the dead is concerned. Soul Awake proponents are always obligated to use implicit verses, to justify their views.
Plus, you supplemented your proof-text with explaining the ubiquitous, figurative use of sleep, to convey a dormant state of the dead until the 2nd Coming.

Outside of that, as far as I know, I hold to no other SDA doctrine, whatsoever.
 
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DNB

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Well, this is just diabolical nonsense, no pun intended, at all! Ellen White is entirely deluded and filled with a lying spirit. No revelation, that is on par with Scripture, has been revealed to man since the Book of Revelation. And anyone who dares to add to it, stands accursed. She is declaring that it has been revealed to her, the anatomy and disposition of Satan, something not imparted, to such a detail, in Scripture.
She fabricated the whole depiction, to the point that it is full of nothing but stereotypes and clichés, that it ultimately sounds ridiculous.
She sounds frivolous, silly and immature. And worse, defiant in her audacity to make such extraordinary claims, and to allege that the inspiration came from God.
SDA people, be on your guard.​
 
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