Adventist Theology......

[reddogs]

As everyone knows the theology of a church evolves as its understanding grows, much like a individual and we must be prepared for more unveiling at both levels. The church founders gave it the basis for most of the beliefs/doctrines and the Official Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Beliefs have clarified some of them. Here is what I gone over and posted so far....

Seventh-day Adventist theology


But I need careful study and input on what I have entered so far as I am sure there are others with greater degree of study on the beliefs/doctrines. And as I still need to enter in some other beliefs/doctrines which I have been going over, but want more input on it to go over before posting such as the nature of Christ. I dont mind and encourage if you address each & every beliefs/doctrines but please document/make a presentation on your viewpoint so I can go over it.

Also, if everyone could address whether some understanding/issues need to be detailed or best be left to the individual such as Christ as the 'beggoten' in the Godhead...

 

[OntheDL]

As everyone knows the theology of a church evolves as its understanding grows, much like a individual and we must be prepared for more unvieling at both levels. The church founders gave it the basis for most of the beliefs/doctrines and the Official Seventh-day Adventist Fundamental Beliefs have clarified some of them. Here is what I gone over and posted so far....

Seventh-day Adventist theology


But I need careful study and input on what I have entered so far as I am sure there are others with greater degree of study on the beliefs/doctrines. And as I still need to enter in some other beliefs/doctrines which I have been going over, but want more input on it to go over before posting such as the nature of Christ. I dont mind and encourage if you address each & every beliefs/doctrines but please document/make a presentation on your viewpoint so I can go over it.

Also, if everyone could address whether some understanding/issues need to be detailed or best be left to the individual such as Christ as the 'beggoten' in the Godhead...

Red,

I feel what you have posted from wikipedia (I don't know who made the entry there) did not accurately reflect the historic/traditional Adventist doctrine on many of the key controversial issues.

You need to study the issues and pray about them.

The role of Ellen White on doctrines
Adventist doctrines were NOT developed in the confines of Ellen White's writings. Her writings served as light and focus on the scriptures that forced the pioneers to examine and sometimes re-examine their believes. Through prayers and careful studies, the (historic) Adventism of today was developed by the pioneers.

The role of Ellen White on church
Ellen White was a messanger of God who prepared the way before His face, through whom God used to deliver the last days special testimony to His remnant people.

The spirit of prophecy was not Ellen White but Jesus Christ Himself. The writings are in harmony with the bible. They not only give focus to the bible, they provide in greater details (magnify the scriptures).

Developments in theology
1888 issue marked the begining of Adventist church apostasy in the rejection of the spirit of prophecy. 1888 issue also opened a way to the new theology of 'righteousness by faith alone' which the bible does not support.

The 'Questions on Doctrine' represent a drastic departure from (Historic) Adventism, in an attempt to comform to mainstream Christianity.

GC conceded to Walter Martin and changed key issues on the nature of Christ, Atonement at the cross...

The Desmond Ford controversy of late 70s, early 80s did not bring anything new. Ford merely repeated Dudly Canwright's arguments. Ford did however polarized the disagreement among the Adventists on the sanctuary doctrine, the pilar of Adventism. Before Ford went public with his argument after he was discovered by a visiting elder, for almost 20 years, as an educator, Ford privately taught thousands of pastor of his believes. Because of this, the rejection of our sanctuary doctrine is wide spread among Adventist ministers and scholars.

 

[reddogs]

Red,

I feel what you have posted from wikipedia (I don't know who made the entry there) did not accurately reflect the historic/traditional Adventist doctrine on many of the key controversial issues.

You need to study the issues and pray about them.

The role of Ellen White on doctrines
Adventist doctrines were NOT developed in the confines of Ellen White's writings. Her writings served as light and focus on the scriptures that forced the pioneers to examine and sometimes re-examine their believes. Through prayers and careful studies, the (historic) Adventism of today was developed by the pioneers.

The role of Ellen White on church
Ellen White was a messanger of God who prepared the way before His face, through whom God used to deliver the last days special testimony to His remnant people.

The spirit of prophecy was not Ellen White but Jesus Christ Himself. The writings are in harmony with the bible. They not only give focus to the bible, they provide in greater details (magnify the scriptures).

Developments in theology
1888 issue marked the begining of Adventist church apostasy in the rejection of the spirit of prophecy. 1888 issue also opened a way to the new theology of 'righteousness by faith alone' which the bible does not support.

The 'Questions on Doctrine' represent a drastic departure from (Historic) Adventism, in an attempt to comform to mainstream Christianity.

GC conceded to Walter Martin and changed key issues on the nature of Christ, Atonement at the cross...

The Desmond Ford controversy of late 70s, early 80s did not bring anything new. Ford merely repeated Dudly Canwright's arguments. Ford did however polarized the disagreement among the Adventists on the sanctuary doctrine, the pilar of Adventism. Before Ford went public with his argument after he was discovered by a visiting elder, for almost 20 years, as an educator, Ford privately taught thousands of pastor of his believes. Because of this, the rejection of our sanctuary doctrine is wide spread among Adventist ministers and scholars.

How then would you rewrite/edit those parts you touch on...

Role of Ellen White:
Seventh-day Adventist approaches to theology are affected by the level of authority accorded the writings of Ellen White. Adventists believe that White had the spiritual gift of prophecy, but the Bible has ultimate authority. Ellen White is considered an inspired commentary on Scripture, although Scripture remains ultimately authoritative.

Developments in Seventh-day Adventist theology:
Seventh-day Adventism has moved away from some legalistic and perfectionistic tendencies which characterised its earlier decades, towards a stronger emphasis on grace. One of the main factors contributing to this theological shift were discussions which took place between Adventists and evangelicals in the 1950s, culminating in the publication in 1957 of a book entitled Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine. An earlier factor was the 1888 Minneapolis General Conference after which the church developed a much greater focus on Jesus and "righteousness by faith". While asserting that Christians are saved entirely by the grace of God, Adventists also stress obedience to the law of God as the proper response to salvation.

The preamble to the 28 Fundamentals allows for revision at a General Conference Session:
"Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word."[7] (emphasis added)
The concept of "present truth" was very important to the founders of the church.......



I have come across much of what you have said and as is my way of putting what I study and find to the fire to see what stands the test, have gone over it with some of my pastors, my 'theology scholars' and some trusted members of my bible study group, and with other church sources, so I know what you are saying and am studying it and praying for more understanding and guidance, and I know we will be blessed as we study and look further. I think we need to post our Adventist theology and agree that we need to see if we understand it correctly and the history of it, thus I presented it here for further input, so that it is not just my private interpretation, that is how it should be. If you could, I have one question on something you touched on, how do you see the light that Jones and Wagoner brought out and Ellen Whites position on what they presented to the church in 1888...

 

[OntheDL]

How then would you rewrite/edit those parts you touch on...

Role of Ellen White:
Seventh-day Adventist approaches to theology are affected by the level of authority accorded the writings of Ellen White. Adventists believe that White had the spiritual gift of prophecy, but the Bible has ultimate authority. Ellen White is considered an inspired commentary on Scripture, although Scripture remains ultimately authoritative.

Developments in Seventh-day Adventist theology:
Seventh-day Adventism has moved away from some legalistic and perfectionistic tendencies which characterised its earlier decades, towards a stronger emphasis on grace. One of the main factors contributing to this theological shift were discussions which took place between Adventists and evangelicals in the 1950s, culminating in the publication in 1957 of a book entitled Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine. An earlier factor was the 1888 Minneapolis General Conference after which the church developed a much greater focus on Jesus and "righteousness by faith". While asserting that Christians are saved entirely by the grace of God, Adventists also stress obedience to the law of God as the proper response to salvation.

The preamble to the 28 Fundamentals allows for revision at a General Conference Session:
"Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word."[7] (emphasis added)
The concept of "present truth" was very important to the founders of the church.......



I have come across much of what you have said and as is my way of putting what I study and find to the fire to see what stands the test, have gone over it with some of my pastors, my 'theology scholars' and some trusted members of my bible study group, and with other church sources, so I know what you are saying and am studying it and praying for more understanding and guidance, and I know we will be blessed as we study and look further. I think we need to post our Adventist theology and agree that we need to see if we understand it correctly and the history of it, thus I presented it here for further input, so that it is not just my private interpretation, that is how it should be. If you could, I have one question on something you touched on, how do you see the light that Jones and Wagoner brought out and Ellen Whites position on what they presented to the church in 1888...

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner did not present a new light.

"I have had the question asked, "What do you think of this light that these men are presenting? Why, I have been presenting it to you for the last 45 years--the matchless charms of Christ. This is what I have been
trying to present before your minds. When Brother Waggoner brought out these ideas in Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband. I have said to myself, It is because God has presented it to me in vision that I see it so clearly, and they cannot see it because they have never had it presented to them as I have. And when another presented it, every fiber of my heart said, Amen. ---Manuscript 5 {1888 348.2}

I do not agree 1888 message changed the legalistic Adventist theology. When the historic adventism was developed after the pioneers understood the sanctuary message, it has never been legalistic. The central theme of our sanctuary message is righteousness by faith.

The SDA church as a whole did not accept this message and still rejected after the 1888 controversy. But the message had been always been there.

While EGW herself said AT Jones and EJ Waggoner's message was from God, however Satan made a clear twist in the perceptive human mind. It opened the door for 'righteousness by faith and faith alone, irrespect of works'. The bible does not teach such a thing. We are justified by works, not by faith alone. James 2.

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner both went astray afterwards. Soon after in the mid 1890s, both of them ignored repeated warning from EGW and worked with Dr. JH Kellogg and his pantheist ideas.

Here is a good article from Vance Ferrell.
http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-M/Minneapolis-Message.pdf

 

[reddogs]

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner did not present a new light.

"I have had the question asked, "What do you think of this light that these men are presenting? Why, I have been presenting it to you for the last 45 years--the matchless charms of Christ. This is what I have been
trying to present before your minds. When Brother Waggoner brought out these ideas in Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband. I have said to myself, It is because God has presented it to me in vision that I see it so clearly, and they cannot see it because they have never had it presented to them as I have. And when another presented it, every fiber of my heart said, Amen. ---Manuscript 5 {1888 348.2}

I do not agree 1888 message changed the legalistic Adventist theology. When the historic adventism was developed after the pioneers understood the sanctuary message, it has never been legalistic. The central theme of our sanctuary message is righteousness by faith.

The SDA church as a whole did not accept this message and still rejected after the 1888 controversy. But the message had been always been there.

While EGW herself said AT Jones and EJ Waggoner's message was from God, however Satan made a clear twist in the perceptive human mind. It opened the door for 'righteousness by faith and faith alone, irrespect of works'. The bible does not teach such a thing. We are justified by works, not by faith alone. James 2.

AT Jones and EJ Waggoner both went astray afterwards. Soon after in the mid 1890s, both of them ignored repeated warning from EGW and worked with Dr. JH Kellogg and his pantheist ideas.

Here is a good article from Vance Ferrell.
http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-M/Minneapolis-Message.pdf

The key point is as you said "EGW herself said AT Jones and EJ Waggoner's message was from God" so we must study it closely, and I agree it has been twisted to form a false gospel but the clear truth is still in there and Ellen White clearly upheld what they brought and the church leaders rejected. We must study it and bring out the message that God was giving us, we cannot ignore that part....

 

[OntheDL]

The key point is as you said "EGW herself said AT Jones and EJ Waggoner's message was from God" so we must study it closely, and I agree it has been twisted to form a false gospel but the clear truth is still in there and Ellen White clearly upheld what they brought and the church leaders rejected. We must study it and bring out the message that God was giving us, we cannot ignore that part....

If they who rejected the message at that time and the adventists today would study our doctrine and apply in their lives, they would have understood the true 'righteousness by faith' message in our doctrine from the very begining.

 

[OntheDL]

The key point is as you said "EGW herself said AT Jones and EJ Waggoner's message was from God" so we must study it closely, and I agree it has been twisted to form a false gospel but the clear truth is still in there and Ellen White clearly upheld what they brought and the church leaders rejected. We must study it and bring out the message that God was giving us, we cannot ignore that part....

Ellen White sided with AT Jones and EJ Waggoner. Their message was right for the time. But it did not have the complete truth.

"He [Ellen White's angelic guide] stretched out his arms toward Dr. Waggoner and to you, Elder Butler, and said in substance as follows: "Neither have all the light upon the law, neither position is perfect. 'Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart' (Psalm 97:11). There are hundreds that know not why they believe the doctrines they do."--Letter 21, 1888, pp. 6,7. (To G. I. Butler, October 14, 1888.) {9MR 218.1}