I want to ask Stormy and a few others to fill us in on the history of the church on this issue, as I have not researched it and defer to those more knowledgeable on the subject...
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Adventist and the Black Experience
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U.K church, 1950's and 1960's mass immigration from New Commonwealth of people in the Adventist church especially the Caribbean. Prior to this the Adventist church in the UK was dying probablly more fit to be a mission field than a conference. However the leadership of the church and the pastoral team remained solidly white until the mid 1970's,1980's. During this time the black members had to demand, even diverting their tithes to overseas conferences to get their voice heard for a school for their kids and for more black pastors. The present Adventist school and college were not welcoming to people of colour back in the day (sound familiar?). This method did work I think the Pierson report (after the GC President of the time) gives the details. Ok so now we have the Pastors forward to SEC session to pick a new President in the early 80's or maybe 1979 Pastor Silburn Reid of Jamaica was picked. The first black Pastor in this role was this met with agreement since the man was experienced to do the job. I'm afraid not, the ugly R word reared its head and people forgot their Christianity and showed their hidden colour in regard to race. Since then most of the Pastoral team is a reflection of the membership which is mainly black for a nation that is around 95% white the irony is the Adventist church in the UK is mainly a black one....
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the church started in the 1800s... initially EGW advocated that the "colored" folk have their own churches because of societal norms at the time....
As time progressed however many churches in the U.S. were integrated with the majority having white pastors....
When EGW died several of the brethren in leadership suggested and implemented separation and so most of the integrated churches were split along color lines... though the churches were in the same local conferences....
In the 40s, the black leaders asked for more input and representation on the conference level. The solution for this request (by the white leaders of that time) was to suggest "regional conferences" so that black ministers could lead black folks in their own conferences...
In essence two systems, often overlapping the same areas, one black and one white.... in fact in Ohio where I grew up, there was a white church, and a black church within 15 minutes of each other, though the white church belonged to the Ohio Conference, and the black church belonged to the Allegheny West Conference....
That's a start....
As time progressed however many churches in the U.S. were integrated with the majority having white pastors....
When EGW died several of the brethren in leadership suggested and implemented separation and so most of the integrated churches were split along color lines... though the churches were in the same local conferences....
In the 40s, the black leaders asked for more input and representation on the conference level. The solution for this request (by the white leaders of that time) was to suggest "regional conferences" so that black ministers could lead black folks in their own conferences...
In essence two systems, often overlapping the same areas, one black and one white.... in fact in Ohio where I grew up, there was a white church, and a black church within 15 minutes of each other, though the white church belonged to the Ohio Conference, and the black church belonged to the Allegheny West Conference....
That's a start....
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Not so much history, but in the south there is a clear distinction between black churches and white churches. Very few multicultural churches exist, and whether or not they continue to be multicultural normally changes with the pastors. Where I grew up there were two SDA churches 10 minutes from each other, in two different conferences. South Atlantic conference was the black church and Carolina conference was white. The churches for the most part do not mix, support each others community outreach, and many are completely unaware of the others members. It is a kind of an unwritten rule the two should never meet. The different churches were formed when the conference was segregated, and even though that is no longer the official position, it is still tollerated. It is hard for me to believe that in this day and age we are wasting money and resources to support two small churches rather than combine them and have a single church with more resources and wider appeal. That is not even discussed. We actually had a pastor come to our church from the Carolina conference and tell us that although we may have not been welcome in at his church in the past, we were now. It stayed that way for a while and became a true multicultural church for awhile. We had individuals from the West Indies, South America, Scotland, Canada, the Philipines, Hawaii, and Blacks all worshiping together as brothers and sisters in christ for two pastor changes. The new pastor has come in and has not insisted or made a multicultural church one of the goals. Once again powerful members of the church have let many of the minorities know that there are spanish churches and black churches in the area they could go to. The black church has be subject to the type of speaches that Obama's pastor has made during this time. I find them offensive, and could only immagine what a non-black visitor thought upon hearing some of those rants and we actually lost white members over that. Many of us have had to focus on the message rather than the race relations. There have been times where there were racially insensative rants going on at the black church and I was unwelcome at the white church. Even after moving away and going to another area with two SDA churches abut 8 min away from each other the race relations remain tense. Again, both churches have about 20-25 active members, do not support each other. While I am welcome at the predominatley white church, I am aware that I should not rock the boat. The simple suggestion at a get together that Jesus was not fair skinned, blue eyed, and blond was met with
. I had watched something on the history channel and was discussing it with another member. We as southern SDA keep the tradition of segregation, ignore racial issues, but they are still there.
. I had watched something on the history channel and was discussing it with another member. We as southern SDA keep the tradition of segregation, ignore racial issues, but they are still there.
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Well I have a Anglo SDA church, a black Hatian SDA Church, a Spanish SDA Church, and a Carribean SDA 'Church of all Naitions' all within 15 minutes and I go to each one for different issues such as promoting the school, Pathfinder programs, raising funds for their new church, etc...and I am welcomed in all of them and this has been my experience with most SDA churches. Yes, like in society at large, there are some people who have prejudices, but all in all, you are welcomed with brotherly love at SDA churches. What can we do to make it better, as I feel the influence from society and lack of love is the major cause and at the heart of the issue. So would you have the black churches leave the "regional conferences" and consolidate, or what would be your line of thought on this...
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Just as a question--what would you say the racial composition of the SDA Church as a whole is?
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Adventtruth
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Just what are you asking redd...the black [christian]experience predates and is much bigger than the Adventist church. I mean... the old slave experience of the bondage of those who came before us belong to us, the old Negro spirituals that came out of that experience belong to us, Just as the "all men are created equal and have a right to persue life, liberty and happiness have always belong to us as well as to you, just as redemption, salvation, and Christ have always belongs to us as well as you...so what are you really asking redd?
AT
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Adventtruth
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redd it is my opionion that most people, black and white never understood Pastor Wrights hurtful comments because they never understood the "Black Liberation Theology" of the 50's and 60's and perhaps of the 1800's. I'm not defending Pastor Wrights remarks, but only seeking to put his hurt into perspective. This thing did not start with Pastor Wright, or the Adventist church, but can be traced back in America as coming with the theology of the Puritans. They looked at the social order as God at the top and white men directly under God. Then came white women, who where not as good as white men. Native Indians where next to last being savages and then black men and black women who who where seen as less human than the whites. This was the mind set of that time that has continue to thrive and evolve into what we have today. During slavery blacks needed liberation theology ( tho not call as such then) that was based upon Christ works for us, but at the same time had much emotional teachings to make the oppressed feel as if Christ was right there with them. The old negro spirituals where born of such preachings. The more intellectual preaching of the great white theologians of the 1700's and 1800's did little for the oppressed who needed to feel free at that moment, and not from a future second coming from the charges of the whites that they where beast and salvages and not human, thus emotional black liberation theology was born and was needed for the black man. This type of preaching is still seen in some black churches today.
AT
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Adventtruth
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:Now Paul DONT Get Racist:
Im 100% against the Multicultural "Nightmare" here in the UK, I would say seprate Churches for Whites, Seprate churches for others.
My Family [Who are Church Members; Im Not] see no problem with Race Mixing, even mixed Partnerships
I see Everything Wrong with it.
Sadley many Churches not just SDA appear to have more Coloreds, then whites, I Would NEVER Enter such a church; I wonder if this is one reason so many "Whites" are Leaving Churches; of All Faiths ?.
One Question, Apart from KKK are there any "White"
Churches today ?.
Paul
What is it you think thats wrong with it?
AT
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JonMiller
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I didn't even know about the different conferences bit until I started attending church down in here in Newport News (it is Allegheny East). For the most part the nearby new life church is talked about, but not the church (different conference maybe?) that I haven't been to. I think once a year, there is a unity day(?) where the church basically closes down and goes up to Williamsburg to worship with a Potomac (?) church there. I am not sure which Williamsburg church, I have visited only one.
I have also visited churchs in VA Beach/Norfolk area. The 'white' churchs there don't seem to have much to do with the philipino churchs which meet in the upstairs of malls and the like. It is these churchs I have visited, I heard that the chesapeake one was so conservative that some had split away from it and that they had chased their pastor off.
I like the church I go to (Calvary SDA) but am surprised how race is still an issue in the area. Of the churchs I have been to, the only one that seemed truly multicultural (and to be honest, some of the ones I ahve been to have only had one culture that they were serving) was Sligo. I am not as fond of Sligo for some reasons though.
Jon Miller
I have also visited churchs in VA Beach/Norfolk area. The 'white' churchs there don't seem to have much to do with the philipino churchs which meet in the upstairs of malls and the like. It is these churchs I have visited, I heard that the chesapeake one was so conservative that some had split away from it and that they had chased their pastor off.
I like the church I go to (Calvary SDA) but am surprised how race is still an issue in the area. Of the churchs I have been to, the only one that seemed truly multicultural (and to be honest, some of the ones I ahve been to have only had one culture that they were serving) was Sligo. I am not as fond of Sligo for some reasons though.
Jon Miller
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We say Jesus is coming for a prepared people, we used to preach we are the 'true' church, if we still believe this why are our leaders not demanding that the segregation ends? (BTW this is one of the things let convinces me we are not the official true church of anything.
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most of the members of the sda church reside outside of the U.S. As stated earlier the largest block is in Africa at about 34%. Then South America and the South Pacific.... there are just about a million sda's in the U.S. and and I am not certain how many are in Canada.... Total membership is said to be about 14 million give or take...
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Originally Posted by Paul101
:Now Paul DONT Get Racist:
Im 100% against the Multicultural "Nightmare" here in the UK, I would say seprate Churches for Whites, Seprate churches for others.
My Family [Who are Church Members; Im Not] see no problem with Race Mixing, even mixed Partnerships
I see Everything Wrong with it.
Sadley many Churches not just SDA appear to have more Coloreds, then whites, I Would NEVER Enter such a church; I wonder if this is one reason so many "Whites" are Leaving Churches; of All Faiths ?.
One Question, Apart from KKK are there any "White"
Churches today ?.
Paul
someone actually said this? They were not joking? They were serious?
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Telaquapacky
Unconquerable Good Will
It's really toobad for white SDA's who don't like to be surrounded by nonwhites, because the vast majority of the world's Seventh-day Adventists are nonwhite, and probably the vast majority of saved people of all religions throughout time are nonwhite. Heaven would be too uncomfortable a place for white folks who look unfavorably upon other races. Better fall in love with diversity, boys and girls!
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If this is a real response and not a bad joke and there are white members who think this way better they express their views so we know to avoid them on a dark night.
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Thats what I am having trouble understanding the issue that is the unacceptable to some here. Can it be called a issue because some SDA members like to go to churches with those of their background and ethnic group which causes these distinctions in SDA churches (i.e. Korean, Hatian, Carribean, Spanish, Black, etc..) or is it a issue because of the seperate conferences.....Which one is a problem?
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Thats what I am having trouble understanding the issue that is the unacceptable to some here. Can it be called a issue because some SDA members like to go to churches with those of their background and ethnic group which causes these distinctions in SDA churches (i.e. Korean, Hatian, Carribean, Spanish, Black, etc..) or is it a issue because of the seperate conferences.....Which one is a problem?
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The problem is that the churches being divided along ethnic lines is enduring testement to a time in which the SDA church's segregation was mandated. The churches don't happen upon their racial makeup, they are mandated by the conference. One conference for all churches and letting the racial makeup be determined by the members would be a step in the right direction.Thats what I am having trouble understanding the issue that is the unacceptable to some here. Can it be called a issue because some SDA members like to go to churches with those of their background and ethnic group which causes these distinctions in SDA churches (i.e. Korean, Hatian, Carribean, Spanish, Black, etc..) or is it a issue because of the seperate conferences.....Which one is a problem?
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