Adultery vs. Kids

[GreyWookiee]

I've divorcing my wife after 10 years of marriage. I wanted to die. So now I'm trying to define myself again and am trying to learn Christianity. I've heard the whole bible once, and now I'm kind of studying the gospels. I'm concerned when Jesus said that don't let man separate what God brought together. So a couple of questions, that I'm sure have already been asked and answered before in these forums.

1. How do I tell if God brought us together? Just because it's a legal marriage doesn't mean it's a spiritual one. My stepfather was the performing minister, but I question his validity. Not because of his remarriage it was within the spiritual grounds. But what makes a marriage valid? Sex?

2. In the old testiment when a man gave his wife a letter of divorce she became a widow and so did her kids. I'm sure that made divorces very difficult for a loving father. But I'm wondering if it wasn't a really good idea. As much as I don't want to abandon my kids because I love them very much, I'm not sure if I can deal with their mother anymore. Which in America we are forced to do just for visitations.

Thanks

 

[Autumnleaf]

If she cheated on you you can divorce her. Do it and its done.

 

[dbhost]

I'm not sure what the question really is. If she cheated though, you have no moral responsibility to stay with her.

Go to www.ibs.org (International Bible Society) and do a search for Marriage, and then a search for divorce. Maybe those results will give you the answers you seek.

Contrary to incorrect dogma, there ARE grounds for divorce, and even remarriage to another. Adultery, and being unequally yoked where a Christian is married to a non believer who choses to leave spring to mind.

As to what constitutes a real marriage, I am no longer certain. I was "Married" for 13 years on the books to a woman who entered the marriage having affairs, and she never had any intention of having children with me. I do NOT call that a marriage.

I think marriage itself is much more a matter of the heart, and commitment than it is in any ceremony, civil, or religious. God looks at the heart, not at the trappings and ceremonies of man.

 

[Brotherfromanothermother]

I've divorcing my wife after 10 years of marriage. I wanted to die. So now I'm trying to define myself again and am trying to learn Christianity. I've heard the whole bible once, and now I'm kind of studying the gospels. I'm concerned when Jesus said that don't let man separate what God brought together. So a couple of questions, that I'm sure have already been asked and answered before in these forums.

1. How do I tell if God brought us together? Just because it's a legal marriage doesn't mean it's a spiritual one. My stepfather was the performing minister, but I question his validity. Not because of his remarriage it was within the spiritual grounds. But what makes a marriage valid? Sex?

2. In the old testiment when a man gave his wife a letter of divorce she became a widow and so did her kids. I'm sure that made divorces very difficult for a loving father. But I'm wondering if it wasn't a really good idea. As much as I don't want to abandon my kids because I love them very much, I'm not sure if I can deal with their mother anymore. Which in America we are forced to do just for visitations.

Thanks

Why are you divorcing your wife? Your title eludes to adultery but you didn't clarify that point.

You wanted to die... please clarify.

There is wisdom in seeking the truth in this matter and in strengthening your knowledge of God's word.

You're married. Except that as God's will even though you made the decision. You made the commitment so God sanctified it and your children.

Legal marriage / Spiritual marriage.... why try to delineate. It is what it is. You are married.

You question your step fathers validity to validate your decision to leave the marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage
Marriage is an interpersonal relationship with governmental, social, or religious recognition, usually intimate and sexual, and often created as a contract, or through civil process.

In spite of the fact you don't want continued contact with your wife after the divorce; if you are a loving father as you say, you would endure the life long dealings with your ex spouse so that your children and yourself can realize the relationship of a father and his children. It goes beyond your feelings and extends to your responsibilities financially, spiritually and emotionally to YOUR children.

As long as you pay your child support and spend (and hopefully enjoy and cherish) the time allotted with your kids you really only have to have minimal interaction with your ex. If you don't do those things you'll find you have to interact (often negatively) much more than you'd like.

 

[FaithfulWife]

I've divorcing my wife after 10 years of marriage. I wanted to die. So now I'm trying to define myself again and am trying to learn Christianity. I've heard the whole bible once, and now I'm kind of studying the gospels. I'm concerned when Jesus said that don't let man separate what God brought together. So a couple of questions, that I'm sure have already been asked and answered before in these forums.

1. How do I tell if God brought us together? Just because it's a legal marriage doesn't mean it's a spiritual one. My stepfather was the performing minister, but I question his validity. Not because of his remarriage it was within the spiritual grounds. But what makes a marriage valid? Sex?

2. In the old testiment when a man gave his wife a letter of divorce she became a widow and so did her kids. I'm sure that made divorces very difficult for a loving father. But I'm wondering if it wasn't a really good idea. As much as I don't want to abandon my kids because I love them very much, I'm not sure if I can deal with their mother anymore. Which in America we are forced to do just for visitations.

Thanks

GreyWookie~

As I understand it, you are asking these two basic questions:
1. How do you tell if you were married?
2. Is it wiser to just make your kids orphans rather than dealing with their mom?


So let's tackle #1--How do you tell if God brought you together and it's a legitimate marriage. Let's start by defining a few terms!

A "wedding" is the ceremony performed in front of friends and family that meets the legal requirements of the state you live in and also publicly declares the union of two people. This is not a marriage, as on the occasion two people are living as one unit, create a home and have children, and then find out that there was some legal snag that did not meet the requirements of their county or state. They are still MARRIED but there is a legal issue.

Having "sex" together not a marriage either...otherwise prostitutes and adulterers are married to all their sex partners. Sex is a physical activity, blessed and sanctioned by God for the exclusive use of two covenantally committed adults male and female. The fact that we can use an activity sinfully is just sin--and that's nothing new.

So what is a "MARRIAGE" then?? I personally believe that we should look to the bible for God's definition of what a marriage is. And I believe that I can name some of what God has taught us about marriage. It is between two people: a male and a female. We are to leave our father and mother and cleave to each other. Husbands are to love their wives and delight in the wife of their youth--because without her you would not be where you are today! Wives are to respect their husbands and according to the Song of Solomon, be responsive lovers TO THEIR HUSBAND ALONE!! But I think more than anything else a "marriage" is a covenant. And GreyWookie, I know that you know that our God is a COVENANT KEEPING God! God is NOT pleased when a person enters a covenant and does not keep it. So I believe that a "marriage" is a covenant between one man and one woman, vowed before God.

Are you beginning to understand the AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY of entering a covenant before God? And the equally enormous consequences of breaking that covenant?

Gratefully, God is aware that we are sinful, prideful, head-strong, and stubborn and He did give us grounds on which a divorce (aka breaking the covenant) is allowed. Is it God's best will? No. Does it always have to be broken? No. But it is allowed. And the grounds for divorce are sexual impurity. Sex is such a blessed, intimate institution with such dire potential consequences are bringing another life into the world, that God set it up so that we should choose our covenant partner WISELY. He told us that He wants us to marry other believers so we will want to obey Him, honor God with our commitment, and keep our covenant! He told us to marry an equally-yoked partner so can bring up our children (if we're blessed with any) to glorify HIM!! And sex is the gift He gives us for choosing our covenant partner--the ability to share physical intimacy with one another is a sign and privilege of "marriage." Thus, if a young lady were to represent herself as a virgin and 3 months into the marriage the new spouse were to discover her 6 months pregnant--sexual impurity! Likewise, if a gentleman came home with an STD and had not been sleeping with his wife--sexual impurity.

In those instances, God "allows" divorce--He does not REQUIRE it, but He does allow it. If the spouses were a non-believer and a believer, and the non-believer just leaves and is sexually impure, I do believe God allows the wronged spouse to be the one who divorces, not the one who DID the wrong so they can be free to do MORE wrong!! The one who was wronged is free to remarry--the one who did the wrong is to repent and sin no more!

GrayWookie...WAKE UP! Heehee (kidding)

So for question #1 I would say that if you stood before friends and family as a testimony, and you made a covenant with your wife before God--that it was a marriage. Now, she may or may not have decided to sin and engaged in sexual impurity. God does not like it but we allowed to choose to sin, and it is still all to God's glory and part of His plan. Your wife's intention may have been to deliberately choose to do what she knows is wrong, but God will still use her sin as a way to teach you so you grow more and more and MORE into His likeness. So, it doesn't matter if step-dad was "legit" as a minister--what matters is that the covenant was between you and her and God. It was a marriage.

Now let's tackle #2--Is it wiser to just make your kids orphans rather than dealing with their mom? Okay, sorry man but I think you know the answer to this one...it's a no-brainer. These are your CHILDREN...your inheritance from God. You are their FATHER and the one who will teach them what it means to be a godly man. Yes it is a pain in the (you know where) to have to deal with the alien who has taken over your former wife's body, but your children are your responsibility. In fact, I do not know your whole story, but have you considered going for primary custody? They are your children as much as hers, and they need a godly example and to be taught morals! So yeah, I'm sorry your wife is to deal with, but for the sake of your children it is not better to just abandon them and make them orphans.

I have been in your shoes and I suggest what I can "Going Dark". This means that you take every moment, every SECOND that you can with your children, but you cut off all communication with your wife as long as she is involved in her sin. And before you say, "Well I can't because..." let me give you some examples. You have visitation every weekend, let's say. Cool--she drives them to school Friday morning, you pick them up at school Friday night. You don't ask her to pack socks and their meds-you are their DAD! You have your own socks for them and your own supply of their meds. YOU talk to their teachers and get their school calendars. If they're in preschool, same thing. And then you drop them off Monday morning and she picks them up Monday night. You don't have to deal with her. Any communication ABOUT THE KIDS is via a "kid's notebook" that has a pocket in it for a calendar. If you need to tell her "the doctor's office said this" you write a note in the kids' notebook. If she wants to change a date with you, the request is in the notebook. And you change your cell phone and email address--block her if you have to--and you don't have to deal with facing her every day.

Hope this helps! You will be in my prayers daily!

~~FaithfulWife

 

[Mayzoo]

When my father and mother divorced--my father divorced us too. He disappeared not to be heard from again....yes, he is still alive.

No, the children are not better off by you divorcing them too. First hand experience here! If you, as an adult, cannot bear to deal with this woman (their mother) why would you leave innocent, emotionally undeveloped children to deal with her?

Think about that for a bit---then PM me if you want to. I am not judgmental, and I am over the worst of the pain of what I went through.....so I may be able to give you some insight if you want it.

 

[bliz]

GreyWookie -

You are coping out. Now you wonder if your marriage was valid. Now you think that maybve your children will be better off if you abandoned them and never saw them again... and you proposing a Biblical basis for both!

Man up! Even if you have valid reasons for divorce, that does not mean you must divorce. And abandoning your children? There is no cause for that. Ever.

 

[GreyWookiee]

Thanks everyone for their opinion. I understand that I didn't give enough specifics for a fair answer. But, none the less, it did help me see it from some different points of view. Just in my defense, my parents divorced when I was six and I never recovered from it. I've always taken it personally and I never wanted my kids to feel the pain I've felt most of my life. The things I struggle with though, are whether or not the pain is from knowing my father enough to regret him not being more of a part of my life or the divorce itself.

Some opinions are that divorce is copping out. And to some degree that is true. But if the marriage was never a holy marriage to begin with, then I have to believe that it wasn't meant to be. I also believe that because of what society has become, that there is a fight for respect in a marriage. The roles have changed. And even when both parties say they agree on what the roles should be, one or both are pressured to change. I have to believe that if one or both parties have so much hate and evil in their heart that there is no more love for that person, that it is better to divorce then to continue wanting to die.

I am not going to abandon my children, but I am also not going to fight with her. Fighting with her will only bring more stress into my children's life. I'm also not going to take the kids away from her, because I fear they are her only purpose for life and I don't ever want my kids to grow up without their mother. As much as I disagree with her on almost everything, she can still provide something to them noone else can.

I really like the idea of the notebook. Thank you Faithfulwife. I don't think she'd go for it, but she may not have a choice in the long run if she continues to be periodically negative.

In closing, I will have to say that I just hope the next generation learns how to sanctify marriage. I hope we as parents do a better job of preparing our children with the knowledge of what is required for marriage today and how to choose our life partners better. My mistake was thinking that I needed to have a family for purpose and so I just jumped into it without thinking about the consequences if I failed. Instead, I just need to be the best me I can be. I tried to do it on my own and I failed. Now it's up to God if I ever marry again. I feel as though He knows my needs and will not let me go very long without someone to share my life with. But I also feel as though I'm still being taught how to be a better me and until I learn the lessons I need to, he's not going to bless me with that person.
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[TexasSky]

Leaving your children so you can avoid dealing with your wife is a tremendously selfish thing to do.

How do you expect your children to understand that their father didn't love them enough to remain their father?

 

[BigNorsk]

The thing you won't find in the bible is the concept that you are using that somehow a marriage isn't real or spiritual or in some way deficient and so not a real marriage.

Take Jacob (Genesis 29), he worked seven years to be given his wife, Rachel. Yet his father in law tricked him and Jacob was married to Leah and not Rachel. Now there's a case where Jacob had lots and lots of grounds to have his marriage declared somehow invalid, he had no intention of marrying Leah. Yet what did he do? He stayed married to Leah and worked seven more years for Rachel.

So like I say, if you study marriage in the bible you will see several forms, lots of people doing it lots of ways, not all of them happy by any means, and no indication that any of them had a marriage that was in any way invalid.

Now as for your children, a lot of the damage of divorce comes from parents who use the children to hurt each other, or who abandon the children and pretend that since the marriage didn't last the children for some reason don't matter anymore. Children often see divorce as an end of life type of experience. Assure them that you love them, that while your marriage cannot continue, your relationship with them will.

Treat the children well, do not use them for a weapon, if you fight with their mother don't do it in front of them, treat her with respect as the mother of your children even though she has hurt you and likely will continue at least sometimes to do so. That doesn't mean either to be some sort of push over father that lavishes gifts on the children to try and pay for guilt or something over the divorce.

Don't make the mistake of thinking a divorce means that you set out to destroy each other and hurt them more than they hurt you. It's a recognition of the breaking of the marriage covenant not a war.

Marv

 

[Autumnleaf]

I don't see anything in the Bible about how to treat children of divorce. Where did you come up with that BigNorsk?

 

[TealTuesday]

The children are an issue.Iam lost as to how God precieves us that fight for full custody.With me,no money will pass between us as I don't need it,nor does he so what I face is the power tripping ownership of my little kids. Your post makes me think you are letting her have the upper hand though.Fight for who is the best of the two of you to raise them. A chaplan in the chaplan forum here said that's the courts decision.I hope the courts have open minds.



I wish you the best!

 

[BigNorsk]

I don't see anything in the Bible about how to treat children of divorce. Where did you come up with that BigNorsk?

God was divorced from Israel yet he died for his children and her children.

We are told to love our enemies, should that be interpreted as excluding our children from our love? We should even love our ex. We certainly don't love it when they sin, but even that we should forgive and move on. Do we not pray to God to forgive us as we forgive others? Seems kind of strange to pray to ask God to retain our sins wouldn't you think? Seems like Jesus was teaching us to forgive.

But let the love of our children be real, not trying to make payment for sins. They are not the parent's judge. Look at what happens to people when they win a lottery and receive worldly riches, it destroys them, so to does a divorce that showers worldly riches on the children. They are children, they cannot handle it. Treating them thusly is not love but rather hatred. They don't need those things, they need a father, a father who truly loves them.

Many do not get that even when parents continue in marriage. The divorce seldom changes it.

Marv