Adam's Sin?

[Belenus]

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

 

[Terral]

Hi Belenus:

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

We disagree. The ‘man’ the Lord God (Christ) is talking about is Adam + her seed + Eve that ‘now’ includes ‘your seed’ of Genesis 3:15, which means the ‘triune man’ now has the knowledge (like Adam ‘knew’ Eve, i.e., went ‘into’ her) of good ‘and’ evil INSIDE themselves. Adam in Genesis 2:7 had Eve ‘and’ her seed IN him as a singularity expression ‘man,’ but now (in Gen. 3) the triune ‘man’ (Adam + her seed + Eve) have been corrupted exactly like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit above in Heaven. This means that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (The Word) coexists with an antithesis Satan, Beast and False Prophet (diagram = ‘man’ on far left) inside the same Word Realm/Heaven that contains this Adamic Universe. The Lord God in Genesis 3:22 is talking about Adam and Eve ‘then’ having (unlike before) the evil seed inside themselves ‘knowing’ (having inside themselves) good (her seed) and evil (your seed), so that Cain (Gen. 4:1) emerged from ‘your seed’ and Abel came forth from ‘her seed.’

Many fail to realize that Adam WAS NOT deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression (1Tim. 2:14). Sin entering the world through one ‘man’ (Rom. 5:12) is sin entering into one ‘race’ (righteous branch) through Adam ‘and’ Eve, as she is one flesh with the ‘man’ the Lord God formed in Genesis 2:7. God’s Plan includes the Lord God (Christ) guarding “The Way” into the tree of life (Holy Spirit) using cherubim (note = 'the man'), so that man does not live forever with the evil seed still IN him. Desolations are determined (Dan. 9:26), because ‘your seed’ must be allowed to carry out their desecration for the third and final time; like they did in God’s Infinite Realm ‘and’ in the Word Realm (Heaven of Gen. 1:1) in the Great Battle between Michael the Archangel and the Dragon where the bad guys were thrown down out of Heaven. You also have a war going on between your own spirit and flesh, because you are also ‘like Us’ knowing (having in yourself) good (spirit) and evil (flesh) in the very same way. That is why the believers in our gospel are told to follow the Spirit and not the flesh (Gal. 5:16-18), as the same Spirit of the tree of life works in our mortal bodies (1Cor. 3:16, 6:19).

In short, everyone here needs to give their father Adam a break. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Belenus]

Problem. 'is become as one of us', does this mean God has the evil seed? The comparison is clearly made between the human and God hence they were simmilar in some effects. We can discredit that they were made physicaly like Hime hence we are left with the option that they are emotionaly like him, along with all the little flaws.

 

[Terral]

Hi Belenus:

Problem. 'is become as one of us', does this mean God has the evil seed?

Yes. His name is Satan from God’s Infinite Realm and the Dragon from Heaven who battled with Michael the Archangel, as already explained in Post #2 above. The entire “Word Realm” (Heaven of Genesis 1:1) is an almost infinite universe that contains this Adamic Universe (like this) that behaves exactly like Jacob (F+S+HS) and Esau (Satan, Beast, False Prophet) contained inside the same living womb inside Rebekah (like this). Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) is over on the right side of the Word Realm/Heaven equation like Jacob and David and the 666 Heavenly Man Antichrist (bottom of diagrams) is like Esau and Goliath. The serpent in the Garden is the Adamic Realm counterpart who beguiled Eve in the same exact way that Satan deceived all the ‘gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) in God’s Infinite Realm (far left) now incarnate here as women. Those of you from the bearded races (sons of Noah) incarnate in this world as men were not deceived by Satan as gods, but eventually you were deceived by those incarnate here as woman. Take a good long look at the womenfolk in your environment right now and you have a good sampling of the incarnate 'gods' who played the largest role in your reason for being here in the first place. :0) Now we are all here to determine exactly who ‘went out to deceive’ with Satan and the Dragon (in Heaven) and who is merely ‘deceived’ and clueless as to what in the heck is even going on.

The comparison is clearly made between the human and God hence they were similar in some effects.

We disagree. The ‘man’ is Adam ‘and’ Eve ‘and’ her seed (diagram) all combined into ‘one’ (Gen. 2:7) and now having the same exact ‘triune’ nature (diagram = left above "The Fall") as the Father (spirit witness like Adam), the Son (blood witness like her seed) and Holy Spirit (water witness Helper like Eve) “and the three are into the One.” 1John 5:8. One third of the Word Realm hosts (stars of heaven = Rev. 12:4) in Heaven were swept away and they were thrown “to the earth,” which is ‘Eth Erets of Genesis 1:1 or the heavens, heavens and earth of Genesis 1:6-8. Those evil hosts are represented by the heavenly forces of ‘this darkness’ (Eph. 6:12) in ‘heaven’ of this Adamic Universe with earthly representatives walking around continuing to go out and deceive for the third and final time. God’s Infinite Body was corrupted BY SATAN and the Lord God’s almost infinite Body (Heaven of Gen. 1:1) was corrupted by the Dragon, Beast and False Prophet now working through the “god of this world” (2Cor. 4:3-4) and his ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) forcing MANY to ‘believe what is false’ all of their days upon this earth.

When God said that man was created in ‘Our Image’ (Gen. 1:26), then He is talking about Singularity Expression Hosts ‘now’ having a Triune (spirit, blood and water) nature like God To Come (spirit), God Who Is (blood) and God Who Was (water witness Helper) from Revelation 1:8 and this diagram. When the Lord God (Christ/Lamb of God) said that ‘man’ has become like one of Us, then He is saying that Adam (spirit), her seed (blood) and Eve (water witness helper) from this diagram also had a Singularity Expression nature (Gen. 2:7) but ‘now’ has a Triune nature just like “Us” being the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water witness Helper) ‘and’ they also have the evil seed “IN” themselves exactly like “In Heaven.” If you want to break this down to the host components for this Adamic Universe, then the angels are the spirit witnesses with man + woman as the water witnesses and the immortal man (1Cor. 15:51-53) is the enlarging blood witness host achieved by joining them back together. The angels currently occupy the ‘heavens’ and man (male + female) occupy the ‘earth’ in anticipation of both being married back together for obtaining immortality in ‘heaven.’ Therefore, this Adamic Creation bears the same triune nature of God, the Word (Lord God = F+S+HS) and Adam (Adam, her seed and Eve) and man himself (spirit, soul, body).

We can discredit that they were made physically like Him hence we are left with the option that they are emotionally like him, along with all the little flaws.

We definitely disagree. Christ having the “IMAGE of the Invisible God” (Col. 1:15) is the Father + Son + Holy Spirit having the exact same triune relationship of God To Come + God Who Is + God Who Was from Revelation 1:8 in the exact same way that Adam was broken down/pierced into Adam, her seed and Eve; which mirrors the angels, immortal man and fallen man + woman to a Tee. The woman prays with her head covered “because of the angels” (1Cor. 11:10), because that symbol of authority represents the “First Veil” between the earth and heaven and the Holy Spirit and Son and God Who Was and God Who Is and the division between your physical body and soul. Man prays with his head uncovered, because he stands in the ‘spirit witness’ position (like Adam over Eve) having the image and glory of God (1Cor. 11:7) while woman has the glory of man in the God/Word/Adam relationship.

In Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) = The Word,

Terral

 

[Instrument]

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

If the same satan is NOT a threat to the power of God, why would the man be?

The man was indeed lower than the angels (Psalm 8), so I do not see why someone so small could become a threat to God.

It is clear then that you are adding text to something that is not there. Ie: the man came to be like God, in terms of knowledge of good and evil, but NOT in the very nature of God.

greetings.

 

[mark kennedy]

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

This has puzzled me as well, over the years I have managed to tease apart what I think the real problem is. The bait was 'ye shall be as gods', that is by knowing good and evil. The Serpents temptation was one of power that appealed to the will. Adam and Eve were learning so the addition of 'and evil' would seem to be the hook.

 

[nhislove]

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

What the passage says to me is God did not want Adam and Eve to live forever in their fallen state by eating of the Tree of life. Adam and Eve were created innocent but with free will. God wanted them to choose obedience to him over the temptation of being like him. This is why he put them out of the garden. The human race has had to choose between good and evil ever since.

 

[Belenus]

So, God doomed us all to eternal death because he was worried that we may get a little stressed or maybe a wee bit cranky with being his equal? Gee, thanks God, I am sure humanity would have been far more sinnful with immortality.

 

[bling]

A little fact I found in the wording of Gen 3:22 'And the Lord God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, least he put forth his hand, and yake also the tree of life, and eat and live forever'.

This passage makes clear that God did not punish humanity because of disobedience but because they 'became as one of us'. God was stamping out a threat to his power.

That is not the reason God gave, Look at Gen 3:

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

 

[Belenus]

Lets look at it this way. God TOLD man not to eat the fruit that would make him wise and like God. This wisdom is the only way to enjoy free will because, otherwise, they would not have been aware of it (innocence and ignorance clouding there selfawarness) hence, by denying man the fruit, God is being rather selfish from the word go. God has made sure that only he will be wise. Why did He create such a monopoly? How much easier it is to control someone ignorant of there true selves. Or maybe He just wanted to be special or powerfull.
Next is the killer, when humans become wise, the natural step in development to break out of there child mentality, God punishes them for stealing from the candy jar. Perhaps this punishment in Gen 3:15-19 is justifiable, if a little extreme. Humanity did break the only law after all.
However, if you look at the text carefully, God takes the immortality away after the judgement is pronounced and this time it is not because they disobayed Him but because 'the man has become like one of us'. This stinks of jelosy that he is not the big cheese anymore.

 

[bling]

Lets look at it this way. God TOLD man not to eat the fruit that would make him wise and like God. This wisdom is the only way to enjoy free will because, otherwise, they would not have been aware of it (innocence and ignorance clouding there selfawarness) hence, by denying man the fruit, God is being rather selfish from the word go. God has made sure that only he will be wise. Why did He create such a monopoly? How much easier it is to control someone ignorant of there true selves. Or maybe He just wanted to be special or powerfull.
Next is the killer, when humans become wise, the natural step in development to break out of there child mentality, God punishes them for stealing from the candy jar. Perhaps this punishment in Gen 3:15-19 is justifiable, if a little extreme. Humanity did break the only law after all.
However, if you look at the text carefully, God takes the immortality away after the judgement is pronounced and this time it is not because they disobayed Him but because 'the man has become like one of us'. This stinks of jelosy that he is not the big cheese anymore.

Understand the objectives! You are making God out to be some kind of Greek God with human characteristics of self centered behavior.

The most likely reason I see for God making humans in the first place was: “God’s Love compelled Him to make agents that could Love Like He Loves, so for the sake of those that would Love like He Loves humans were made.”
The objective of the Garden was not to set humans up for failure, but to demonstrate and show where God wants humans to be and even though God desires us to be in a heaven on earth type of place that place is not good and helpful for us to fulfill our objective. God has to quench His desire to provide a Garden type situation for each human, because it is not a place where we can obtain Godly type Love and thus fulfill our objective of Loving God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy (our objective in this world.)
In order to Love with Godly type Love (as described in scripture) it has to be a moral choice over likely perceived alternatives (the pleasures of sin). The tree was perceived by Eve as being good to eat and as having intellectual benefits, so she had a reason to want to partake of the fruit. The serpent (satan) was there to bring out her desires and make them actions that we could all see.
Today and down through the ages men have thought that god should have put them in a Garden type situation and wanted to be in that situation, but Adam and Eve (as the best human representatives we could have) proved what we all should know: “Humans of their own ability can not obey commands even if their eternal lives depended on it.” The situation we are in today and Adam and Eve had outside the Garden; where we are dependent on God’s Love/mercy/grace/forgiveness for an eternal close Loving relation with God is much betters then the Garden situation.

We can truly be like God for the serpent lied, God is Love and we can Love like He loves if we accept that Love by initially accepting God’s forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Belenus]

Understand the objectives! You are making God out to be some kind of Greek God with human characteristics of self centered behavior.

The most likely reason I see for God making humans in the first place was: “God’s Love compelled Him to make agents that could Love Like He Loves, so for the sake of those that would Love like He Loves humans were made.”
The objective of the Garden was not to set humans up for failure, but to demonstrate and show where God wants humans to be and even though God desires us to be in a heaven on earth type of place that place is not good and helpful for us to fulfill our objective. God has to quench His desire to provide a Garden type situation for each human, because it is not a place where we can obtain Godly type Love and thus fulfill our objective of Loving God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy (our objective in this world.)
In order to Love with Godly type Love (as described in scripture) it has to be a moral choice over likely perceived alternatives (the pleasures of sin). The tree was perceived by Eve as being good to eat and as having intellectual benefits, so she had a reason to want to partake of the fruit. The serpent (satan) was there to bring out her desires and make them actions that we could all see.
Today and down through the ages men have thought that god should have put them in a Garden type situation and wanted to be in that situation, but Adam and Eve (as the best human representatives we could have) proved what we all should know: “Humans of their own ability can not obey commands even if their eternal lives depended on it.” The situation we are in today and Adam and Eve had outside the Garden; where we are dependent on God’s Love/mercy/grace/forgiveness for an eternal close Loving relation with God is much betters then the Garden situation.

We can truly be like God for the serpent lied, God is Love and we can Love like He loves if we accept that Love by initially accepting God’s forgiveness of our sins.

I don't think you are paying enough attention to the scriptures. The serpent did not lie once. He/she/it said we would become like God and even God admits that we did. No lies anywere.
Also, nowhere can I find that Satan is the serpent. The serpent could have been anyone or anything as far as the first 4 chapters of Genisis are concerned.

One last thing. 'So god created human beings, making them like himself' Gen 1:27. We can safly dismiss that we have the physical characterstics of God hence this is probably being refered to in the emotional context. In this context, God will have all the good and bad emotions of a human. This means God will be, on some occasions, like 'some Greek god with human characteristics of self centred behaviour'.
God admits himself that he is a 'jelous God' and if he can be jelous, he can be self centred. All in all, God could easily be concidered the bad guy in the Genisis story as the serpent did nothing wrong and the humans very little.

 

[MamaZ]

One must understand sin as it is..

 

[Clifford B]

Is it possible, that since Satan had access to the presence of God...remember Job's trials...that the "us" could be God and Satan? Then God could easily refer to the disobedience that Adam did, in the footsteps of Lucifer..eh?
Cliff

 

[MamaZ]

Is it possible, that since Satan had access to the presence of God...remember Job's trials...that the "us" could be God and Satan? Then God could easily refer to the disobedience that Adam did, in the footsteps of Lucifer..eh?
Cliff

Job came after sin entered in remember.

 

[bling]

Belenus said:
don't think you are paying enough attention to the scriptures. The serpent did not lie once. He/she/it said we would become like God and even God admits that we did. No lies anywere.

Gen 3: 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. That is a lie!

Belenus said:

Also, nowhere can I find that Satan is the serpent. The serpent could have been anyone or anything as far as the first 4 chapters of Genisis are concerned.

I can not prove the serpent was really satan. The serpent sure acted like satan; conning, lying, the advisory, and the tempter.

Belenus said:

One last thing. 'So god created human beings, making them like himself' Gen 1:27. We can safly dismiss that we have the physical characterstics of God hence this is probably being refered to in the emotional context. In this context, God will have all the good and bad emotions of a human. This means God will be, on some occasions, like 'some Greek god with human characteristics of self centred behaviour'.
God admits himself that he is a 'jelous God' and if he can be jelous, he can be self centred. All in all, God could easily be concidered the bad guy in the Genisis story as the serpent did nothing wrong and the humans very little.

You are making God out to be like man. The characteristic we need like God so we can become like God (in Love) is the free will to accept His Love.

 

[Clifford B]

Evidently you missed the point. Did Lucifer fall before Adam sinned? He had access to the presence of God after he fell...no timeline in scripture indicated. The real point is that there are more ways to look at the particular scripture in question....referring to "one of us".

 

[MamaZ]

LOL.. Do you think that if Lucifer had not fallen that he would lie? For Gods angels are actually Gods messengers.. They would indeed put forth truth and not lies..

 

[Belenus]

Gen 3: 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. That is a lie!

Look at the text. The Serpent said this in context with eating the fruit. If humans eat it, they will not die. They did not die because of eating the fruit, but because God sentenced them to death. The Serpent said this statement before God revealed His plan for judgement(eg death) so the statement is not a lie at this point in the text as there is no way humans are going to die from eating the fruit without an outside influence, which, I think, is what the Serpent means.

 

[MamaZ]

They sureley did die.. LOL.. For they died a spiritual death that day. Their relationship with God was broken.. Exactly what the serpent wanted. For he is a thief for he comes but steal kill and destroy..