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The infinite magnitude of the glory of his goodness, love and mercy would never have been known.He could have made them complete and perfect, then given them free will after that. That way they would have made perfect choices and no-one would have had to worry about sin. Can you see any downside if he'd used that approach?
"Dying, you will die." (Ge 2:17)I think you might have got the lying thing the wrong way round.
The serpent said they would not die. They didn't, so the serpent told the truth.
God said they would die and they didn't, so God lied.
God created the angels, some angels chose to rebel under a leader, they are now demons, under the leadership of Satan.God didn't create Satan, man did.
The NT disagrees. . .for starters, the tempter of Jesus in the wilderness is calledSatan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the parable we call the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on?
Satan here is not "the Devil"
but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this.
None of which alters the testimony of the NT Word of God written that Satan is the devil for whom, with his angels, eternal fire was prepared (Mt 25:41).The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God.
"Lucifer", if you think it is Satan, existed before Eve.The creation of Eve mirrors the creation of Lucifer. God was rehearsing the creation of Lucifer in Eve
in that Lucifer was made of the very substance of God himself, to be his spirit 'loved one'. Lucifer was a 'wife-type' to God, without actually having a 'female' gender. Lucifer was the ante-type of the Proverbs 31 woman, being given great authority and resources to provide and care for God's family of angels, while her husband/God was 'in the gate'/on his throne.
Eve likewise was made from the very substance of Adam...his rib, to be his helper and consort/wife. As God created Lucifer a 'suitable' companion for himself, he also created Eve as a suitable companion for Adam, realizing that it was not good for either of them to be alone. So as Adam gave up part of himself for the creation of Eve God also gave part of himself in the creation of Lucifer.
Lucifer, like the Proverbs 31 wife, was given great authority, over one-third of the spirit family of God. Lucifer had a throne, whether physical or not, upon the earth, and became enamored with the idea of elevating that position over all the other angels. It grew into a conspiracy involving all of the angels in his charge. With strength of numbers he ascended to the throne room of God and sought equal authority. What Lucifer attempted to claim was deemed by God to be "rebellion" against his authority, and thus the concept of "sin" came into being.
Eve did much the same thing, taking authority to herself, however innocent and however deceived, in regard to God's authority.
The results were the same. Lucifer was cast out of heaven, Eve and Adam were cast out of paradise. Both events led to ruin, of God's heavenly kingdom, and of the repeated ruin of the kingdoms of the earth, to culminate in total destruction, save for the eleventh hour intervention 'for the elects sake'.
Happily both kingdoms will be restored. The earth under the millennial rule of Christ; the Kingdom of Heaven in the 'new heavens and new earth'.
Didn't God force Eve on Adam?
How is it that Adam & Eve are said to have been created perfect, yet they were led to temptation by the serpent? Surely they must have had some inherent impurity for this to have happened?
How is it that Adam & Eve are said to have been created perfect, yet they were led to temptation by the serpent? Surely they must have had some inherent impurity for this to have happened?
To me it's kinda like having a child and then saying to it "I have created you, now be obedient to me and worship me otherwise you will be punished for eternity."
Hi all,
Thanks for your responses so far. I guess I'm just a bit confused by the whole thing really. Like I'm struggling to understand why God felt the need to create man, who would go on to sin despite being ignorant of the difference between good and evil, and would then fall into an inherent state of sinfulness only to be redeemed by God's grace and worship of God, the one who created them in the first place.
To me it's kinda like having a child and then saying to it "I have created you, now be obedient to me and worship me otherwise you will be punished for eternity."
Hi all,
Thanks for your responses so far. I guess I'm just a bit confused by the whole thing really. Like I'm struggling to understand why God felt the need to create man, who would go on to sin despite being ignorant of the difference between good and evil, and would then fall into an inherent state of sinfulness only to be redeemed by God's grace and worship of God, the one who created them in the first place. To me it's kinda like having a child and then saying to it "I have created you, now be obedient to me and worship me otherwise you will be punished for eternity."
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