Adam and Eve

[X-Ray]

Why would god create adam and eve with the knowledge that eve would share and eat the forbidden fruit, damning thousands of generations of human lives to suffering on this flawed earth

 

[frater_domus]

Why would god create adam and eve with the knowledge that eve would share and eat the forbidden fruit, damning thousands of generations of human lives to suffering on this flawed earth

Did He though? Humans were created with free will and the freedom to choose. Eve chose poorly and outside of God and there were consequences. God does not want mindless robots. God wants each of us to choose Him and have a relationship with us. Think of yourself. Would it mean as much to you if you computer told you he loved you after you programmed it that way, as opposed to a person wanting a relationship with you and caring for you? We are created in the image of God, so God is us+infinity, to put it bluntly, so God values relationship even more than we do.

 

[X-Ray]

but god supposedly lives in the past present and future, knowing all and seeing all, so when we created eve its not that he programmed her to do this or choose that, but if its true that he knows all then he knew that eve would use her free will to choose the apple instead of him

 

[Inkfingers]

Why would god create adam and eve with the knowledge that eve would share and eat the forbidden fruit, damning thousands of generations of human lives to suffering on this flawed earth

Eden is figurative, not literal. It is a parable telling us about sin (which is egoistic and self-indulgent rebellion against the authority of God) and how it destroys the paradise that obedience to God would bring.

Proverbs 9:6

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Deuteronomy 29:29 has the answer for such questions

"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law"

Ours is not to reason why...

the God of the Holy Bible is PERFECT and without any fault, nor can He ever err in anything. He has in His infinite Wisdom chosen to tell us only those things that we created beings need to know.

 

[Noah Ark]

if its true that he knows all then he knew that eve would use her free will to choose the apple instead of him

If you are a good parents you will establish a family with children and no matter what your children do whether obedience or rebellious, you will kindly feed and teach them so they can become good people no matter what.

 

[klutedavid]

Why would god create adam and eve with the knowledge that eve would share and eat the forbidden fruit, damning thousands of generations of human lives to suffering on this flawed earth

I have wondered that myself on a few occasions.

Even worse, God did not ask me whether I wanted this fallen life, He just gave it to me.

Given that I have been afflicted with suffering and death. I am not stupid, I grabbed hold of the Gospel with both hands. Now I am not haunted by the finality of death like everyone I know. I am excited that I am getting older and will soon be free forever.

 

[cvanwey]

Did He though? Humans were created with free will and the freedom to choose. Eve chose poorly and outside of God and there were consequences. God does not want mindless robots. God wants each of us to choose Him and have a relationship with us. Think of yourself. Would it mean as much to you if you computer told you he loved you after you programmed it that way, as opposed to a person wanting a relationship with you and caring for you? We are created in the image of God, so God is us+infinity, to put it bluntly, so God values relationship even more than we do.

This answer appears false...

If you have children, and told them not to do something, but already knew one of them is going to do it, would you punish all other siblings as well? And to add insult to injury, they had yet to eat from the 'tree of knowledge', so what moral compass did they even know to follow?

It would be almost equivalent to telling your two year old not to eat glue, and when they do, punish all other siblings for something the two year old did not even really know they were doing wrong, because their knowledge of theodicy was not fully established yet.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This answer appears false...
It would be almost equivalent to telling your two year old not to eat glue, and when they do, punish all other siblings for something the two year old did not even really know they were doing wrong, because their knowledge of theodicy was not fully established yet.

Not at all. The one ate glue, but the others now see and also eat the glue. They are not guilty of the first eating the glue but suffer the consequences of it, now in a world where they choose also to eat the glue. They have also eaten the glue...

 

[frater_domus]

This answer appears false...

If you have children, and told them not to do something, but already knew one of them is going to do it, would you punish all other siblings as well? And to add insult to injury, they had yet to eat from the 'tree of knowledge', so what moral compass did they even know to follow?

It would be almost equivalent to telling your two year old not to eat glue, and when they do, punish all other siblings for something the two year old did not even really know they were doing wrong, because their knowledge of theodicy was not fully established yet.

But the thing is, toddlers and kids are not fully matured and have not yet reach full human capacity, not like Adam and Eve at least. It is a transitional state that is necessary for the human body to grow. Kids are not capable to choose God when they are small, simply because of the lack of mental capacity. In fact, toddlers act more in line with instinctual behavious that is similar to that of animals, namely egocentric survival. We do not hold it against them, because we know that it is perfectly natural. The issues arise when an adult behaves that way.

 

[JIMINZ]

he knew that eve would choose the apple instead of him

.
Psa. 34:8
O taste and see that the LORD is good:

She missed out.

 

[cvanwey]

Not at all. The one ate glue, but the others now see and also eat the glue. They are not guilty of the first eating the glue but suffer the consequences of it, but now they have also eaten the glue...

Using your analogy, that means I ate from the 'fobidden tree.' Also, what if the siblings don't desire or like the taste of glue...

 

[JIMINZ]

Why would god create adam and eve with the knowledge that eve would share and eat the forbidden fruit, damning thousands of generations of human lives to suffering on this flawed earth

The Earth wasn't flawed until after the Fall, and then the Flood, what we have today is mans doing not Gods'

Gen. 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Also, what if the siblings don't desire or like the taste of glue...

They do...

A better analogy is there is a man with a nuclear weapon. He chooses to explode it and many die. Are they guilty of his actions? Or do they suffer the consequences of it? They now live in a world filled with radiation.

 

[cvanwey]

But the thing is, toddlers and kids are not fully matured and have not yet reach full human capacity, not like Adam and Eve at least. It is a transitional state that is necessary for the human body to grow. Kids are not capable to choose God when they are small, simply because of the lack of mental capacity. In fact, toddlers act more in line with instinctual behavious that is similar to that of animals, namely egocentric survival. We do not hold it against them, because we know that it is perfectly natural. The issues arise when an adult behaves that way.

You raise two points...

One you did not address from my prior post, and another new one, based upon this response...

1. Eve did not receive full knowledge until 'after' eating the fruit. So how would Eve truly know that eating from the tree was actually bad, until (after) she ate from the tree? The tree of knowledge was what gave her full reality of breaking God's command...

2. Since you acknowledge theodicy cannot be achieved at age two, does a two year old, whom die,s go to heaven or hell? Remember, this is a loaded question, in reference to John 3:16-18 and Mark 16:15-16

Thanks

 

[JIMINZ]

Eden is figurative, not literal. It is a parable telling us about sin (which is egoistic and self-indulgent rebellion against the authority of God) and how it destroys the paradise that obedience to God would bring.

Proverbs 9:6

How is a Parable able to produce a reality, when the Parable itself is only figurative?

 

[Inkfingers]

How is a Parable able to produce a reality, when the Parable itself is only figurative?

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean.

 

[cvanwey]

They do...

A better analogy is there is a man with a nuclear weapon. He chooses to explode it and many die. Are they guilty of his actions? Or do they suffer the consequences of it? They now live in a world filled with radiation.

Or an even 'better' analogy, which isn't even an analogy... How about judge each individual, based upon their own merits, beliefs, actions, etc... Let's say Bob was the first human, how do we know Bob would have been duped by the serpent? If God knew any human, in Eve's place was going to be deceived in the same way, then what was the point of the test, other than a display of voueyerism?

 

[frater_domus]

You raise two points...

One you did not address from my prior post, and another new one, based upon this response...

1. Eve did not receive full knowledge until 'after' eating the fruit. So how would Eve truly know that eating from the tree was actually bad, until (after) she ate from the tree? The tree of knowledge was what gave her full reality of breaking God's command...

2. Since you acknowledge theodicy cannot be achieved at age two, does a two year old, whom die,s go to heaven or hell? Remember, this is a loaded question, in reference to John 3:16-18 and Mark 16:15-16

Thanks

1. Eve was still capable of an adult decision and she knew what God had said. That is not the same as a kid, who has trouble processing what his parents told him. To use the glue analogy, the kid is not aware that the glue will poison him or glue together his lips or whatever.

2. Yes, there is much discussion with regards to that. The matter of the fact is that we do not know and thus we can only assume. Deuteronomy 29:29, the secret things belong to God and him alone. If He did not reveal to us what happens to kids, then is it safe to assume that it is pertinent for our salvation in Christ.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How about judge each individual, based upon their own merits, beliefs, actions, etc... Let's say Bob was the first human, how do we know Bob would have been duped by the serpent? If God knew any human, in Eve's place was going to be deceived in the same way, then what was the point of the test, other than a display of voueyerism?

We are. We are not pre-programmed robots. She was duped by the serpent because she CHOSE to be duped. She COULD have said no. We have free will...

Miriam accepted The Plan and Yeshua (Jesus) denied the serpent's deception.