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Waxwing said:I was reading the 39 Articles of Religion (the part on predestination) and from it I gather that Anglicans are not generally supportive of Calvinism. Now, I have read that their is a acceptance/warmth towards Calvinism within ACNA form of Anglicanism and was wondering if they too subscribe to the 39 Articles of Religion as does the "mainstream" Anglican Church? If so, is their a official position on this doctrine ?
Of course if I misread predestination part of the Articles than the whole question is even more confusing
When discussing what Anglicans believe, if it's not confusing you can be sure you've missed something.
thanks to the big rhino in the living room---women's ordination.
ACNA affirms the importance of the 39 Articles. The Articles are very Calvinist in their tone, especially with the talk of the Eucharist, the Elect, Predestination, sola scriptura, the saints, and salvation in general. The ACNA's embrace of the Articles isn't surprising. Being of the Anglo-Orthodoxo-CatholicP) persuasion, I'm not happy. Anglicanism has troubled me for sometime in this regard. ACNA is in bad shape anyway thanks to the big rhino in the living room---women's ordination.
But yeah, this is true. And an interesting thing about it is that ACNA isn't really very Calvinist. There seem to be plenty of Wesleyans, but there are not as many classic Calvinists in the mix. However, they love the Articles. Maybe it's because the Articles are seen as a tie to the Reformation (and having such a tie is more crucial than the content of that tie)? Whatever the case may be, they like 'em. And a lot of 'em like rhinos.
I was reading the 39 Articles of Religion (the part on predestination) and from it I gather that Anglicans are not generally supportive of Calvinism. Now, I have read that their is a acceptance/warmth towards Calvinism within ACNA form of Anglicanism and was wondering if they too subscribe to the 39 Articles of Religion as does the "mainstream" Anglican Church? If so, is their a official position on this doctrine ?
Of course if I misread predestination part of the Articles than the whole question is even more confusing
I was reading the 39 Articles of Religion (the part on predestination) and from it I gather that Anglicans are not generally supportive of Calvinism. Now, I have read that their is a acceptance/warmth towards Calvinism within ACNA form of Anglicanism and was wondering if they too subscribe to the 39 Articles of Religion as does the "mainstream" Anglican Church? If so, is their a official position on this doctrine ?
Of course if I misread predestination part of the Articles than the whole question is even more confusing
Elephant in the room
For other uses, see Elephant in the room (disambiguation).
"Elephant in the room" is an English metaphorical idiom for an obvious truth that is being ignored or goes unaddressed. The idiomatic expression also applies to an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss.[1]
It is based on the idea that an elephant in a room would be impossible to overlook; thus, people in the room who pretend the elephant is not there have chosen to avoid dealing with the looming big issue.
I'm well aware of the cliche/idiom, ebia, but along with a few other choice words, it seems "elephant" is another taboo word now in STR so I said "rhino." The list of taboos and words that hurt feelings is growing...it seems that elephants is somehow a bad word in here...why? I have no idea...
What regular Christianity teaches is conditional election (or predestination) -- God already knows what you're going to do before the beginning of the world, and saves or doesn't save you on the basis of whether you have the saving faith.
Sorry, I don't have a lot of time to piece this one together, especially as it seems to hinge on the translation involved. "Romans 9" as a citation is not exactly specificAugustine says, reasoning from Romans chapter 9: “Now, if the apostle had wished us to understand that there were future good works of the one, and evil works of the other, which of course God foreknew, he would never have said, ‘not of works,’ but, ‘of future works,’ and in that way would have solved the difficulty, or rather there would then have been no difficulty to solve.” --St. Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98.
Nobody argues that God cannot change the good and the evil wills of men whenever and wheresoever he chooses. The wills of many men were explicitly changed in the Scriptures. That is not the argument, the argument (of Calvinism) is that he changes the courses of the wills of ALL men.Expounding on Romans 9:15, St. Augustine says, “And, moreover, who will be so foolish and blasphemous as to say that God cannot change the evil wills of men, whichever, whenever, and wheresoever He chooses, and direct them to what is good? But when He does this He does it of mercy; when He does it not, it is of justice that He does it not for "He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens." -- St. Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Chapter 98.
"The Apostle says (Titus 3:5): "Not by works of justice which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us." But as He saved us, so He predestined that we should be saved. Therefore, foreknowledge of merits is not the cause or reason of predestination." Summa Theologica Question 23, Art 5.
gurneyhalleck1 said:I'm well aware of the cliche/idiom, ebia, but along with a few other choice words, it seems "elephant" is another taboo word now in STR so I said "rhino." The list of taboos and words that hurt feelings is growing...it seems that elephants is somehow a bad word in here...why? I have no idea...
Using "elephants" to refer to the controversy over the ordinations of non-celebate homosexuals is a spin-off from Lambeth 2008, where the topic was deliberately kept off the agenda until almost the end for several good reasons, and therefore it (the controversy, not the people) was the elephant in the living room nobody was allowed to talk about.
It fitted here perhaps because homosexuality is a restricted topic on CF.
gurneyhalleck1 said:Homosexuality is a restricted topic and yet it seems it's the most talked-about topic in STR day in and day out. I'd be thrilled if it disappeared!
ACNA affirms the importance of the 39 Articles. The Articles are very Calvinist in their tone, especially with the talk of the Eucharist, the Elect, Predestination, sola scriptura, the saints, and salvation in general. The ACNA's embrace of the Articles isn't surprising. Being of the Anglo-Orthodoxo-CatholicP) persuasion, I'm not happy. Anglicanism has troubled me for sometime in this regard. ACNA is in bad shape anyway thanks to the big rhino in the living room---women's ordination.
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