ACLU Wants Cross Removed from Cemetary Plot

Lorena · May 16, 2005

Nathan Poe said:
I think what happens is that the ACLU takes the occasional far out case just to set a precedent. Laws are vague, and people need to know where the lines are drawn.

I'm reminded of the old expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Only one problem with that theory... there's no money in this for them. Where's the revenue?

When the aclu sues the government and wins, the money comes from your taxes and mine.

Brad'sDad · May 16, 2005

philosopherthales said:
Hmm, searching around a little. Will continue but this is what I found so far

http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/crosscontroversy.htm

In the middle is the Roman goddess Pomona(the goddess of orchard and garden) and there is a cross that is in the right, middle square. The ACLU wanted the cross removed.

Note: I am getting this information from a christian orientated site.

So instead of the Roman goddess Pomona, now there is an Indian maiden. Instead of the cross, we now have the San Gabriel mission without the cross.....

This is another case where taxpayer money would have been better spent on improving libraries, schools, hospitals and such. Just think how much this frivolity is costing the city of L.A. to change the seal and replace the existing ones, not to mention compensating the ACLU for its legal fees.

The old seal

The new seal

notto · May 16, 2005

Lorena said:
When the aclu sues the government and wins, the money comes from your taxes and mine.

When the government violates the rights of it citizens and it is sued, the money comes from your taxes and mine.

I can think of a solution to this problem. Can you?

SKY80 · May 16, 2005

does it matter how tall it is? id ont like buildings blocking out my view can I sue when the buidling is toobig in my opinion?

John of Berkshire · May 16, 2005

It is not news to most rational-thinking Americans that the ACLU is working very hard to destroy this country.

Brad'sDad · May 16, 2005

notto said:
When the government violates the rights of it citizens and it is sued, the money comes from your taxes and mine.

I can think of a solution to this problem. Can you?

How is the govt violating anyone's rights in the Ohio cemetery?

Brad'sDad · May 16, 2005

http://www.christianforums.com/t1629994-stop-taxpayer-funding-of-the-aclu.html

Nathan Poe · May 16, 2005

Lorena said:
I'm reminded of the old expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

When the aclu sues the government and wins, the money comes from your taxes and mine.

I'm not familiar with any case in which the ACLU sued any government (local, state or federal) for money. Isn't the case usually the ACLU trying to compel the government to do something? Take down a statue, stop a particular practice, that sort of thing...

When has the ACLU ever directly won money from the Government?

Brad'sDad · May 16, 2005

Nathan Poe said:
I'm not familiar with any case in which the ACLU sued any government (local, state or federal) for money. Isn't the case usually the ACLU trying to compel the government to do something? Take down a statue, stop a particular practice, that sort of thing...

When has the ACLU ever directly won money from the Government?

The ACLU frequently receives compensation for attorneys fees and costs. For the Roy Moore case alone, the ACLU received over $500,000.

Even though it obtains substantial fees from First Amendment lawsuits, the ACLU disclaims any pecuniary motive for these suits. For example, speaking about a 1999 case against a high school in Ohio that allegedly violated the establishment clause of the First Amendment, an ACLU spokesperson remarked, "we don't bring cases to make money or cash in on other people's insurance policies."

[1] Notably, this comment came after the ACLU pocketed $18,000 from the case, a sum the ACLU considered "somewhat less than we feel we earned."[2]

To the ACLU, $18,000 is pennies. In February of this year, the City of San Diego forked over $950,000 in legal fees to the ACLU for a First Amendment lawsuit filed by the ACLU against the City and the Boy Scouts on behalf of an atheist and a lesbian couple.[3] In 1999, after the ACLU and the People for American Way sued a county library for using software to filter out Internet porn, a federal judge awarded the groups $106,918.25 in legal fees.[4] The groups had asked for over $488,000 in attorneys' fees. The ACLU, the Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the Southern Poverty Law Center will collect $549,000 in fees from hard-working Alabama taxpayers after succeeding to force Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore to remove a monument displaying the Ten Commandments.[5] There are many more examples of large fee petitions and awards from similar cases.

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/voigt/040717

Nathan Poe · May 16, 2005

Brad'sDad said:
The ACLU frequently receives compensation for attorneys fees and costs. For the Roy Moore case alone, the ACLU received over $500,000.

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/voigt/040717

Legal fees and court costs; lawsuits are expensive business.
The winning side is compensated as such because otherwise, rich defendants (particularly governments and corporations) would simply wear down their opposition through stall tactics, bankrupting them.

How much of that money went into the ACLU's pocket?

notto · May 16, 2005

Brad'sDad said:
How is the govt violating anyone's rights in the Ohio cemetery?

By erecting and maintining a war memorial bearning a lone Christian symbol on public grounds that are supported by all taxpayers money, Christian or not.

They are promoting a religion above all others. Pretty clear cut.

notto · May 16, 2005

John of Berkshire said:
It is not news to most rational-thinking Americans that the ACLU is working very hard to destroy this country.

News to me. Preserving a secular government will preserve this country. It shouldn't be news to most rational-thinking Americans that when the government promotes Christianity that Jews, atheists, and others will have a problem with it and see it as a violation of their rights.

notto · May 16, 2005

Brad'sDad said:
The ACLU frequently receives compensation for attorneys fees and costs. For the Roy Moore case alone, the ACLU received over $500,000.

Yep, Roy Moore cost the taxpayers $500,000 in his personal action to try to put his religious beliefs on government property. Blame him and the judge, not the ACLU.

Nathan Poe · May 17, 2005

John of Berkshire said:
It is not news to most rational-thinking Americans that the ACLU is working very hard to destroy this country.

Of course it's not news; it's a fabrication.

Rochir · May 17, 2005

notto said:
I also kick puppies.

You.... YOUUUU... MONSTER!!!!!

Scally Cap · May 17, 2005

notto said:
By erecting and maintining a war memorial bearning a lone Christian symbol on public grounds that are supported by all taxpayers money, Christian or not.

Calling it a war memorial was an attempt at deflection--they had to take it down from the courthouse, and then tried to get around 1st Amendment issues by designating it a war memorial well after the fact.

Brad'sDad · May 17, 2005

notto said:
By erecting and maintining a war memorial bearning a lone Christian symbol on public grounds that are supported by all taxpayers money, Christian or not.

They are promoting a religion above all others. Pretty clear cut.

I'd say that's a real reach. A cross in a cemetery doesn't establish a state religion.

John of Berkshire said:
It is not news to most rational-thinking Americans that the ACLU is working very hard to destroy this country.

The operative word here is rational.

Nathan Poe · May 17, 2005

Brad'sDad said:
I'd say that's a real reach. A cross in a cemetery doesn't establish a state religion.

A cross erected by the state, maintained by the state, and paid for with taxpayer's dollars does.

Brad'sDad · May 17, 2005

Nathan Poe said:
A cross erected by the state, maintained by the state, and paid for with taxpayer's dollars does.

Do you have a link for that?

notto · May 17, 2005

Brad'sDad said:
I'd say that's a real reach. A cross in a cemetery doesn't establish a state religion.

Of course it doesn't. Nobody (including the ACLU) is saying that. A government endorsed war memorial on a government owned cemetary with a Christian symbol devoid of recognition of any other religion does.

It's not a personal marker. If it was, the ACLU wouldn't have, or be making a case.

ACLU Wants Cross Removed from Cemetary Plot

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