Abunduntly prosperous!

Outspoken · Jan 6, 2003

"that tithing is not a New Covenant concept. It was part of the OT Law that was fulfilled on our behalf in the death and resurrection of Christ."

not true at all. the tithe was ment to cover the people who served at the temples, its upkeep, and now with the NT it covers the living expenses of those preaching. Tithing is something you need to do as a christian in the church you belong to. To not do so is going against what the bible says.

sbbqb7n16 · Jan 6, 2003

A gift to the church is called a tithe. I don't see anything wrong with it. We are no longer forced to pay a church tax, as they did in Jesus' day. That's why Jesus was hounded (book of Matthew) for 'temple tax' -and the fish with the coins in its mouth- not 'tithe.'

Outspoken · Jan 6, 2003

"That's why Jesus was hounded (book of Matthew) for 'temple tax' -and the fish with the coins in its mouth- not 'tithe.'"

I'm not so sure about that.

sbbqb7n16 · Jan 6, 2003

Matthew 17:24 -"2 drachma tax" (NIV) not "tithe- 10%"

I used tithe as what it means today a gift to the church. 10% is just a suggested gift amount, also based of Malachi.

Andrew · Jan 6, 2003

I agree with the first part of your post but not this:

I would like to point out one thing - that tithing is not a New Covenant concept. It was part of the OT Law that was fulfilled on our behalf in the death and resurrection of Christ.

then how do you explain the fact that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, a type of Christ. and that it was instituted b4 the law was given?

The NT does talk abt the principle of firstfruits too. ie give 10% to God and he makes the 90% holy. that's what NT tithers are doing. eg: you start a new business and you really want God's blessing on it. so what you do is give the first earnings to God so that the rest is blessed. Or, give a portion of your time to quiet time b4 the Lord b4 you start your day, and he'll bless the rest of your day -- you get more things done despite having given up time for him first. It is the same with your salary/finances.

tithing also helps to free us from the grip and love of money. I mean if you can put aside 10% or more, it shows that you are able to part with money, and that your money does not have a hold on you.

even if you dont want to view it as an NT thing, then note that since we are in a better convenant based on better promises then all the more we should be doing more than in the 'OT' of 10%. ie give more than 10% in the NC. So are those against tithing doing at least that? it cant be that they are giving less than in the inferior OC right?

Outspoken · Jan 6, 2003

"I used tithe as what it means today a gift to the church. 10% is just a suggested gift amount, also based of Malachi."

and I think you used it wrongly, for its not a tax, its a tithe, not equal amounts, equal sacrifices.

sbbqb7n16 · Jan 6, 2003

Your gift should be a sacrifice or else it's not worth giving... we're arguing over word-play... I won't repspond anymore

Outspoken · Jan 6, 2003

"Your gift should be a sacrifice or else it's not worth giving"

Oh, okay, well I think it is our obligation to give as well considering at preachers have a right to be paid, and all the other money goes to things the church itself approves of, thus you must pay your debts.

Blindfaith · Jan 6, 2003

we're arguing over word-play

Do you mean "splitting hairs"?  I agree with you.

Whatever you decide to tithe needs to come from the heart.  No human can determine whether or not if your 20% or 2% is a heart issue, except for the Lord.

 

two feathers · Jan 6, 2003

Originally posted by Andrew
pls dont be another Sri Lankan crab! *L

oh come on, everyone here gambles to some extent.

Gamble = to part with money in a venture that has a certain amount of risk. eg buying a used car, buying a property, stocks and shares, etc.

quit being so legalistic and stop defaming the brother by calling him a "gambler". So if you participate in lucky draws when you go shopping and like to scratch those sctrach and win cards, I shld call you a gambler??? oh pleeeeeeze

i don't gamble.

two feathers · Jan 6, 2003

Originally posted by Outspoken
"So if you participate in lucky draws when you go shopping and like to scratch those sctrach and win cards, I shld call you a gambler??? "

In my opinion, that one dollar I spend on the lottery is one dollar I can use to buy food for the starving or clothes and help for those with none. I have never played in the lottery, nor will I ever. I have better things to do with the blessings God gave me then throw them away on a 1 in 1 million chance knowing I have a 1 in 1 chance to use it to make a difference is someone's life

well said, outspoken.

my thoughts exactly.

Mean Girl · Jan 6, 2003

somebody wrote:

not true at all. the tithe was ment to cover the people who served at the temples, its upkeep, and now with the NT it covers the living expenses of those preaching. Tithing is something you need to do as a christian in the church you belong to. To not do so is going against what the bible says.

As I said, you have to be willing to believe what the Bible actually says, not what you think it says. The NT idea of supporting preachers with the tithes is nowhere in the Bible. The OT tithe was food and money set aside so that during the three yearly feasts of the Lord the people had something to eat. They were told to eat their tithes. Here's the scripture, which I'll post so you know that if you argue with this, you're arguing with scripture:

22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. 27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

That's from Deuteronomy 14, and we all know, I think, that the place where the Lord chose to set His name was Jerusalem. Notice they are even free to buy wine or strong drink with the money from the sale of the tithe if the journey is too far to make with a tenth of everything. Notice, also that the Levites were included in this feasting.

Now please, when have you ever heard of a church telling its members to eat their own tithe? If they are not doing it the way God specified they are not tithing. They are, however, giving as Paul commanded, which is the proper thing for a Christian to do.

Also, every third year the tithe did go to the Levites. Best I can tell, if the NT giving is to be modeled on this, we should only give a check to our churches every three years.

Enjoy.
mg

Mean Girl · Jan 6, 2003

Andrew wrote:

then how do you explain the fact that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, a type of Christ. and that it was instituted b4 the law was given?

Abraham tithed from the spoils of war. He gave ten percent to Melchizidek - but ten percent of what? Ten percent of what he'd gained in the war. The bible never says Abraham tithed from his own possessions. He won the lottery, so to speak, gave Melchizidek Priest of Salem a tenth, and kept the rest for himself. But he didn't tithe on the possessions he already had - at least not as far as we are told.

Firstfruits was the offering that supported the Levites. THAT went into the storehouse and gave them food to eat.

And I don't believe that my actions can push God into blessing me - certainly not by my giving 10% of my wealth in the hopes that God will give me more than I already have received from Him.

I agree with you about the discipline thing, but I won't put words in God's mouth and say we should give more than 10% because the NC is a better covenant. The Bible is clear on that - each one should give what he has decided in his heart to give, for God loves a cheerful giver.

MG

Outspoken · Jan 6, 2003

"The NT idea of supporting preachers with the tithes is nowhere in the Bible. "

I think you missed 1 Corinthians chapter 9

I think you need to go father back in terms of your understanding of what the tithe is. It was orginally used for the tribe of Levi who kept the temple. The 10th was for them so they could live.

Caedmon · Jan 6, 2003

Ok guys, get ready to cancel your cable and sell your TVs, because those could feed the hungry too. And no more candy bars either!

How many things does a "good Christian" have to sell or avoid buying in order to feed the hungry? Sure, we should do that, as well as other services for God, but where do you set the limit? Honestly -- and just imho -- this one-ticket-dollar argument is a dogmatic afterthought.

Andrew · Jan 7, 2003

In line with what humblejoe said:

Why must God bless others at your expense? Is he Al Shaddai (The God who is More Than Enough) or Al Cheapo?

If God so leads you to give your shirt to another to bless him, then do it. But God can just as well give both of you new shirts. Ever thought of that?

Ten percent of what he'd gained in the war. The bible never says Abraham tithed from his own possessions.

isnt there a contradiction here? Isnt "what he'd gained from the war"
1. His possession?
2. A kind of earning?

When we talk about tithing we're talking abt the firstfruits of our increase ie what you earned for the month or week or whatever in today's context. We not talking abt tithing everything you own -- like your car, your house, your wife etc. *L

the money that you earn comes essentially from the world system. In a sense it is cursed and unholy. so consecrate it to God not by giving all of it to him -- no he justs asks for 10%, which is his anyway. give this 10% and the rest becomes holy. If the root is holy, the batch is holy.

and say we should give more than 10% because the NC is a better covenant.

Well, perhaps when you fully realise how much God had to sacrifice to bring you into the better convenant, you will be able to give 10% or more -- and be cheerful abt it.

Outspoken · Jan 7, 2003

"this one-ticket-dollar argument is a dogmatic afterthought."

No its not, its not like having shelter or a car, this is excess. I'll never have a ferrari because I don't make a million a year. the point is you give equal sacrifices, and playing the lottery is just a waiste of money.

Wow, I can't believe I'm on the same side of this as andrew

cenimo · Jan 7, 2003

This thread has defintiely shown me one thing...

if anybody hits lotto don't tell the people here about it

AnnMercy2 · Jan 7, 2003

Originally posted by cenimo
This thread has defintiely shown me one thing...

if anybody hits lotto don't tell the people here about it

LOL you right

two feathers · Jan 7, 2003

in my culture we are taught that all things you "possess" don't actually belong to you, they belong to those around you. shelter, food, and even money. when money is earned, it is not yours to play with and waste, it goes to the good of the people. therefore everyone prospers.

because of this i can't help but see gambling as a selfish endeavor. if you wish to partake in it and support those who do it, that is completely your choice.

"To gamble is foolishness, and to win is a curse." -Tawodi

Abunduntly prosperous!

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