Abstinence

[brightmorningstar]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmasappeal2005/story/0,16796,1654865,00.html

Not quite sure what to make of this. It begs for more detail, but ..
I believe ABC is the answer, Abstain, Be-faithful, Condoms. If people are going to have sex then we ought to give them condoms. However, as sex is one of the main ways one can get AIDS, abstincence is by far and away the best ways to avoid getting AIDS and certainly better than merely using condoms. this is real wooly and fuzzy thinking.....

"Abstinence works if people can abstain, but I don't think people should die because they have sex. We need to make sure people have all the means [of prevention] at their disposal - condoms and clean needles. It includes education and access to sexual and reproductive health services. We are very clear about that."

AIDS works if people dont abstain, because if they do abstain they dont get AIDS through sex. Thats whats clear.

They dont teach abstinence in the UK schools, but increasingly sex education and yet the rate of sexually transmitted diseases is going up and up. DOH!

 

[loriersea]

They dont teach abstinence in the UK schools, but increasingly sex education and yet the rate of sexually transmitted diseases is going up and up. DOH!

In the United States abstinence-only is the norm, and the rate of STDs among teens in the US is much, much higher than in the UK or in the rest of Europe. Abstinence-only sex "ed" does NOT work. It does not stop teens from having sex (the most it's ever been shown to do is to reduce the onset of sexual intercourse by 18 months, which comprehensive sex ed has also been shown to do), and it does not reduce STD infection rates. As abstinence-only has become the norm, STD infection rates among teens have been going up.

I agree that ABC is the most effective method of sex education, with the "B" also standing for "birth control" (along with "be faithful").

 

[butterfoot]

Good post. We don't hold people accountable any more. We say well their going to do it any way. People need to be taught again that they are accountable for their actions. We give people a pass and just say don't do it but if you do well here. I have done the same with my kids but I reinforce the Abstinace issue. Yesterday was AIDS day. I told my kids that if they waited till they got married then they didn't have to worry about getting AIDS.

-cw

 

[loriersea]

Good post. We don't hold people accountable any more. We say well their going to do it any way. People need to be taught again that they are accountable for their actions. We give people a pass and just say don't do it but if you do well here. I have done the same with my kids but I reinforce the Abstinace issue. Yesterday was AIDS day. I told my kids that if they waited till they got married then they didn't have to worry about getting AIDS.

How is teaching people about condoms not holding them accountable? Is it making people MORE responsible if we tell them not to do something and do not give them the information they need to make fully informed decisions should they not listen to us?

 

[LienShen]

Abstinence is certainly important, but in a lot of cases the programs that are brought forth where teens make a promise to abstain are making the issue worse. The Journal of Adolescent Health reports that while teens who pledge to remain virgins, do so for a longer period of time, they are more likely than their counterparts to have oral sex, and anal sex. They are also less likely to use condoms, and have a greater incidence of pregnancy and STD's then their sexually active peers.

Time magazine also did a study that showed that most of the pledges were not taught about sex in a normal fashion, and by not teaching them they contracted STD's at a higher rate due to their lack of knowledge on how to prevent them. The rate of infection of STD's has gone up in the last 10 years, despite the idea that federally funded Abstinence programs are miraculously working. They are in the idea that less teens are having sex overall, but the ones who fall off of the programs do so in grave ways which end up causing greater incidence of pregnancy and disease.

source:
After the promise: The STD consequences of adolescent virginity pledges

Hannah Brückner Ph.D.a and Peter Bearman Ph.D.b

aDepartment of Sociology, Center for Research on Inequalities and the Life Course, Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut
bDepartment of Sociology, Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy, Columbia University, New York, New York

Other problems occur when children are taught in the wrong way;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26623-2004Dec1.html
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/abstain/stat.shtm

The best way to prevent all these things is better education, not less or fear based education;

http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0001.html
http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/abstinence/

 

[Arianna]

well, abstinence is a christian idea, so why should it be taught in British schools?
You cannot instill this value into people

How would this benifit the majority of the students?

Young people should be taught and given the information to to make their own decisions and protect themselves.

In British schools they teach that sex is better kept for a long term relationship with someone you love and trust. Thay also teach safe sex and not giving into peer pressure. I don't think teaching abstinance would be at all appropriate.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Abstinance-only = Let's pretend that animals haven't been evolving for hundreds of millions of years as little more than glorified sex-machines

 

[LienShen]

well, abstinence is a christian idea, so why should it be taught in British schools?
You cannot instill this value into people.

Abstinence is not a Christian idea at all. The value of Abstinence has been around since long before Christianity. Most major religions support abstinence as opposed to promiscuity.

Abstinence can be an effective value to teach our youth, but when we only give them one tool in trying to decipher what their own body is telling them, then we do them a great injustice.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. Hope I am not jumping in too quick with responses..

Cameronw I agree with you entirely.

How is teaching people about condoms not holding them accountable? Is it making people MORE responsible if we tell them not to do something and do not give them the information they need to make fully informed decisions should they not listen to us?

Part of the education is that abstinence is the best way to avoid STD's and hence AIDS.

well, abstinence is a christian idea, so why should it be taught in British schools? You cannot instill this value into people

But Christians have it. Besides it isnt just a Christian value http://www.islamonline.net/Tarbia/english/display.asp?hquestionID=5295
Also I mean abstinence outside faithful marriage is the Christian teaching.

Love to hear some more comments ...I will remain quiet on the subject for a bit

 

[butterfoot]

How is teaching people about condoms not holding them accountable? Is it making people MORE responsible if we tell them not to do something and do not give them the information they need to make fully informed decisions should they not listen to us?

Maybe you didn't read my entire post or understand. I said I do tell the about condoms. I didn't just come out and say it but it was there. However I must State that I teach abstinance first and the biblical reasons plus the personal reasons behind it. I don't just say Oh just wait till your married. I go into detail how it is better for them. For one thing you don't have to worry about a single STD.


-cw

 

[Arianna]

But Christians have it. Besides it isnt just a Christian value

well, fair enough, it is also an islamic value (and possibly a value of other religions also)

But there are just as few muslims in the classroom as christians. If a parent believes in abstinence then it is reasonable for them to want to ass this value to their child.

But the educational system cannot suddenly begin teaching abstinence. It is an alien concept to most people, it would do no good in protecting them from STDs. The kids would not agree with it, so they would just do whatever they felt like.

For example:
Not even my mother would ever expect me to wait until after i'm married. If I had been told this in school and asked her about it she would not have agreed.

And if Christians and Muslims are being taught abstinence at home, then they don't need to be taught about it in school.

Love,
Arianna
xxx

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Why is it that countries that have mandatory sexual education which teaches about birth coltrol and condoms has the lowest amount of teen pregnancies?

Hmmm...

Let's look at some other stats.

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute research for 1999:
US Teens:

15 male-27 percent have had sex
15 femail- 24 percent have had sex
16 male- 45 percent have had sex
16 femal- 39 percent have had sex
17 male- 59 percent have had sex
17 female 52 percent have had sex
18 male 68 percent have had sex
18 female- 65 percent have had sex

It's frightening that all of these people are having sex, yet no one is telling them how to be safe.

Let's see:
United State only 80 percent of teens 15-19 used birth control during their last sexual experiance, which is the lowest of the countries that I have data form

USA has the highest pregnancy rate of the countries I have data for.

The Netherlands and Sweden have the lowest pregnancy and STI rates in the world. What else do they have? Compulsory sexuality education that includes info on birth control and condoms. They also have easy access to condoms and birth control.

I guess the main question is this. Do we want our teens to be have children and abortions at a young age, while getting diseases and dieing, but we get to teach them that not having sex is the option,

Or do we want our teens to be able to be alive and not have babies when they are babies as well, but recognize that they may have sex, and teach them how to do so responsibly.

I don't want our nation's kids dieing, because we are afraid to recognize that fact that they do have sex, and teach them how to do so with little to no risk. I know people think it is immoral to have sex without being married, but I think it is more immoral to let our kids die because we can't put our personal beliefs aside.

 

[The Seeker]

Abstinence-only is a bad way to go about things. Innevitably some aren't going to listen and if they don't know about contraception then they are at a greater risk of STDs and unwanted pregnancy.

Serial monogamy is much more fun anyway

 

[The Seeker]

well, fair enough, it is also an islamic value (and possibly a value of other religions also)

But there are just as few muslims in the classroom as teachers. If a parent believes in abstinence then it is reasonable for them to want to ass this value to their child.

But the educational system cannot suddenly begin teaching abstinence. It is an alien concept to most people, it would do no good in protecting them from STDs. The kids would not agree with it, so they would just do whatever they felt like.

For example:
Not even my mother would ever expect me to wait until after i'm married. If I had been told this in school and asked her about it she would not have agreed.

And if Christians and Muslims are being taught abstinence at home, then they don't need to be taught about it in school.

Love,
Arianna
xxx

Abstinence is not just for the religious. IMO, its probably the most sensible option, if not the most fun (hence why I don't go for it). I don't see what's wrong with telling pupils "If you don't have sex, you can't get pregnant/catch an STD" in addition to telling them to use protection if they do.

 

[butterfoot]

Why is it that countries that have mandatory sexual education which teaches about birth coltrol and condoms has the lowest amount of teen pregnancies?

Hmmm...

Let's look at some other stats.

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute research for 1999:
US Teens:

15 male-27 percent have had sex
15 femail- 24 percent have had sex
16 male- 45 percent have had sex
16 femal- 39 percent have had sex
17 male- 59 percent have had sex
17 female 52 percent have had sex
18 male 68 percent have had sex
18 female- 65 percent have had sex

It's frightening that all of these people are having sex, yet no one is telling them how to be safe.

Let's see:
United State only 80 percent of teens 15-19 used birth control during their last sexual experiance, which is the lowest of the countries that I have data form

USA has the highest pregnancy rate of the countries I have data for.

The Netherlands and Sweden have the lowest pregnancy and STI rates in the world. What else do they have? Compulsory sexuality education that includes info on birth control and condoms. They also have easy access to condoms and birth control.

I guess the main question is this. Do we want our teens to be have children and abortions at a young age, while getting diseases and dieing, but we get to teach them that not having sex is the option,

Or do we want our teens to be able to be alive and not have babies when they are babies as well, but recognize that they may have sex, and teach them how to do so responsibly.

I don't want our nation's kids dieing, because we are afraid to recognize that fact that they do have sex, and teach them how to do so with little to no risk. I know people think it is immoral to have sex without being married, but I think it is more immoral to let our kids die because we can't put our personal beliefs aside.

I would try to find some updated data. Six years is a long time to hold data like that. No one I think is saying to not include sex education but to teach abstinance along with it. Not just mention it once but to really teach the benefits of it. Not just from a religious stand point but from a human emotional stand point as well.


-cw

 

[The Seeker]

On a related note, sex education in my high school was absolutely horrific. They treated us to a powerpoint presentation with a series of pictures of what the various symptoms of STDs look like, all of the symptoms. There's nothing put's you off casual sex quite like being shown pictures of syphyllitic genetallia

 

[Arianna]

Abstinence is not just for the religious. IMO, its probably the most sensible option, if not the most fun (hence why I don't go for it). I don't see what's wrong with telling pupils "If you don't have sex, you can't get pregnant/catch an STD" in addition to telling them to use protection if they do.

Is the definition of marriage not having sex until you are married?
(as opposed to abstaining until in serious relationship)

I really don't know of anyone who would wait until after marraige if not for religious purpose? (If you do, then I stand corrected...... but I recon if there are some such people, it's pretty rare)

Arianna
xxx

 

[butterfoot]

On a related note, sex education in my high school was absolutely horrific. They treated us to a powerpoint presentation with a series of pictures of what the various symptoms of STDs look like, all of the symptoms. There's nothing put's you off casual sex quite like being shown pictures of syphyllitic genetallia

It is good to show the symptoms of STD's. It should be carefully done though we don't want to scare people so that they are totally afraid of sex and then when they get married they remain scared.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

I would try to find some updated data. Six years is a long time to hold data like that. No one I think is saying to not include sex education but to teach abstinance along with it. Not just mention it once but to really teach the benefits of it. Not just from a religious stand point but from a human emotional stand point as well.


-cw

I would post more up to date research, but this is the most recent provided in my sex psych book... which was published in 03, so I'm not sure there really is much more up to date numbers.

And, I would agree that the best way is to include abstinance. I have no problem with that, and do think that it is the best way.

The problem though is that according to Starkman & Rajani 2002, the majority of US schools teach abstinance only education.

 

[MJ421]

Whadya expect! I'm 87, I can't see s***!