Abraham Covenant

DaveM said:

Abraham Covenant was it for the Jews only?

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No, all who would become the 12 tribes of the House of Israel ,not just one of them.

timothyu said:

No, all who would become the 12 tribes of the House of Israel ,not just one of them.

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The twelve tribes of Israel were all Jews. Of course they had household servants who weren't Jews.

DaveM said:

so was it for the Gentiles also?

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To be quite honest things are not what they seem. First of all the Jews, one of the 12, called the other tribes gentiles save for the Levites, where we might wrongly assume it meant anyone not of the Hebrew tongue. Also consider that when Jesus said for the disciples to go to all nations, He was first and foremost referring to the 12 nations of the House of Israel. His goal was to reunite the House of Israel, a work still in progress.

We have kind of been misled to think of the Jews as the House of Israel, when they are but one of 12, and ignore the fact there was a schism when Judah broke away from Israel to the north. No one even questions why the new nation today is called Israel when it is in the territory of and composed of those of the land of Judah, yet the Jews seem to see themselves as taking over the identity of all 12 tribes. A power play continuing since the schism?

To confuse matter more, God's chosen people lived long before Abraham but the world was diverse and it got narrowed down biblically (guess who wrote it) to a line descending fron Abraham on, including the offspring of the handmaiden. So everyone in the world including 10 tribes except Jews and Levites are Gentiles.

pescador said:

The twelve tribes of Israel were all Jews.

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Completely wrong. Only the family of Judah were to become called Jews, along with the family of brother Levi knowns as Levites who were absorbed into the priesthood. Think of is as Corporatism where one came out on top and Christians even built their religion around them.

26 for in 26 for in Mashiach (Messiah) Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Messiah (king - anointed prophet) have put on Messiah.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Jesus.
29 And if you are Messiah's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Does it fit well when put in proper meaning or does an elimination of 'the' change things? Surely Paul wouldn't have changed Jesus' name from ben Josef to Christ but instead would have meant it as a title. As a title and the use of the word the, it makes the understanding of what we are part of much easier... the Kingdom by way of its King. Even Joseph became part of the non Hebrew Egyptian empire so gentiles can become part of the non Gentile - non Hebrew Kingdom

DaveM said:

Abraham Covenant was it for the Jews only?

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In the OT, only for the descendants of Jacob.

who are the offspring in the covenant?

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In the NT, they are all who are in Christ by faith.

DaveM said:

Abraham Covenant was it for the Jews only?

who are the offspring in the covenant?


thanks

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The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant.

Gen 12:

1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

(MY NOTE: typically a covenant is made between two parties. The unconditional nature of the Abrahamic covenant is seen in Chapter 15. Where only God moves between the halves of the animals verse 17 while Abraham was in a deep sleep verse 12. The New covenant is cut in a like mannor via Jesus Sinless God blood. And is opened to all that will believe in His sin redemptivework & resurrection)

Abrahamic Covenant: Is Unconditional, based on a promise from God & open to ALL thru faith/belief.

Gen 15:6 Abraham believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Gen 22:
16 (A) By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice
(MY NOTE: ALL NATIONS)

The New Covenant: That we enter into through FAITH in Jesus sin redemptive death, burial & resurrection. Has its origin in the Abrahamic Covenant which is/was FAITH based.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Gal 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

DaveM said:

so was it for the Gentiles also?

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Through Christ yes. It was to all who believe.