Abraham being influenced by satan?

[eh7]

Is it possible that Abraham was influenced by satan to mate with his maid?

 

[cyberlizard]

no not at all - this was the custom back then, that's all

 

[squint]

"all have sinned"
"all have sin"
"he who commits sin is of the devil"

How much clearer can that be for the "all?"

Throw in the kicker from Jesus:

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers-

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[SummaScriptura]

Well, let me use a little deductive reasoning (which is potentially dangerous with the Bible) with this...

1. God had already promised Abraham and Sarah they would have a child for an heir
2. Sarah seems to have grown impatient with God and suggested this solution to help God's promise come about
3. Whatever is not of faith is sin
4. All sin is of the devil

I conclude, yes, Satan could have been involved, though sinful human nature would have been sufficient motivation in itself. What say you?

 

[squint]

Well, let me use a little deductive reasoning (which is potentially dangerous with the Bible) with this...

1. God had already promised Abraham and Sarah they would have a child for an heir
2. Sarah seems to have grown impatient with God and suggested this solution to help God's promise come about
3. Whatever is not of faith is sin
4. All sin is of the devil

I conclude, yes, Satan could have been involved, though sinful human nature would have been sufficient motivation in itself. What say you?

A relatively CLOSE depiction. I would see no use to blame Abraham or Sarah when we recognize that the deciever was more than likely with them both.

Sin can and does transpire both in flesh and in mind and that sin is OF THE DEVIL.

Sins are not counted against mankind by God in Christ. 2 Cor. 5:19

enjoy!

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P.S. Thanks for the NETS link. I downloaded it yesterday.

 

[SummaScriptura]

<snip>
P.S. Thanks for the NETS link. I downloaded it yesterday.

Seems like I use it daily.

 

[squint]

Seems like I use it daily.

Read briefly yesterday and looking forward to much more use.

Can't beat the price...

 

[calluna]

Is it possible that Abraham was influenced by satan to mate with his maid?

'The angel of the Lord also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility towards all his brothers."' Ge 16:11-12 NIV

Perhaps.

 

[cyberlizard]

don't you think the Satan gets far too much credit for things.


Steve

 

[squint]

don't you think the Satan gets far too much credit for things.


Steve

Actually FAR less credit than satan is due.

It's really hard for religious people to 'fess up' that ALL their sins are intimately LINKED to THE DEVIL...(1 John 3:8)

Nope...they'd rather just blame MANKIND alone...but you see that IS what satan in mankind DOES. Satan doesn't WANT the light to shine ON him...(2 Cor. 4:4)

It's really hard for religious people to acknowledge that EVIL IS PRESENT with them when they desire to do good. (Romans 7:21)

It's really hard for religious people to come to grips with the fact that they are NOT ALONE in either flesh or in mind. (Romans 9:19-21/2 Tim. 2:20-21)

Religious people really have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that nearly ALL of Israel had a SPIRIT OF STUPOR that was put upon them by God... (Romans 11:8)

And believers really have a hard time seeing that God Himself put a messenger of satan upon APOSTLES. (2 Cor. 12:7 - Matt. 16:23)

When 'believers' come to grips with these matters personally, scriptures get vastly more interesting and tension filled...

enjoy!

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[calluna]

don't you think the Satan gets far too much credit for things.

No. He is the god of this world, he whom the great majority of people follow. He is permitted to go around as a roaring lion, looking to devour those who deserve to be devoured. That's what he's for, just a bit like a real lion that is actually useful to the prey species. But he got no bites out of Abraham or Sarah, because using a servant girl as a surrogate wife was ok, just as polygamy was ok. And neither Sarah nor Abe was tempted to faithlessness, because they did not know that Ishmael would not be the one to receive inheritance rights. But that Ishmael was to be the 'wrong one', and from Isaac's birth, a right pain in the neck, was perhaps Satan's intent. He mocks, he opposes, and the 'donkey' Ishmael might have been his intended creature- who knows? But Satan always does what God wants, always shoots himself in the foot, so no glory accrues to him, ever.

 

[cyberlizard]

it is a good excuse though... if i sin i can blame the devil. Personal accountability is shifted, and guilt and remorse are lessened.

so yes, the devil get's not only far too much credit, but far to much attention.

remember that christianity is not a dualistic faith.


Steve

p.s. the bible does not say he is a roaring lion... it says 'like' a roaring lion.
Satan is not a being at odds with God, he is very much a servant... he does not have free reign, but clearly demarcated boundaries imposed upon him by the Most High.

 

[squint]

it is a good excuse though... if i sin i can blame the devil.

Why would you implicate yourself for the works of the DEVIL? Are YOU the DEVIL?

Personal accountability is shifted,

OH? You think the DEVIL will be accountable because of YOU or what YOU want? The devil is not going to 'change' for YOU. The DEVIL is who he is.

Disassociation is NOT a bad approach when it's TRUE.

and guilt and remorse are lessened.

Are you going to be guilty for the devil as well?

so yes, the devil get's not only far too much credit, but far to much attention.

If the devil is implicated in EVERY sin one might think that attention worth noting. (1 John 3:8) In FACT I might even consider that moving attention AWAY from the FACT as the work of same.

remember that christianity is not a dualistic faith.

Don't have a clue what's running through your head on this one.

p.s. the bible does not say he is a roaring lion... it says 'like' a roaring lion.
Satan is not a being at odds with God, he is very much a servant... he does not have free reign, but clearly demarcated boundaries imposed upon him by the Most High.

I do know that wherever the Word is sown, SATAN comes immediately. It would appear that he has no choice in that matter AND that SATAN is in pretty close proximity. Immediately is pretty fast. People really don't like to hear that part. That they may be subject to A PREDATOR.

enjoy!

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[cyberlizard]

can i make a quick comment? Actually that's a rhetorical question as I will do so anyway.

The way you have broken down my post and responded to it is very disjointed, and the responses seems vague and almost cryptic (except for the last bit.)


Steve

p.s. if you sin, who do you blame for your sin, yourself or an external influence (ie. the devil)?

 

[squint]

can i make a quick comment? Actually that's a rhetorical question as I will do so anyway.

The way you have broken down my post and responded to it is very disjointed,

There is a lot of programming to get through to someone else.

For example, IF you have spent your entire believing life 'thinking' that you and you alone are in your flesh and mind and you and you alone are the only one involved, and someone points out the obvious and glaring flaw in that understanding IT JUST WON'T FIT your box. You won't be ABLE to understand.

and the responses seems vague and almost cryptic (except for the last bit.)

Steve

Look Steve. You too have 'evil present' with you THAT IS NOT YOU. (see Romans 7:17-21 for example)

And if you haven't seen this OPEN SCRIPTURAL FACT before it is because OF THE FACT.

Evil does NOT like to have it's presence WITH YOU to be found out...

Here is WHY:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Do you understand that THEM are 'the god of this world?'

The DEVIL(s) do not WANT LIGHT...shed upon them, because IN THAT fact their defeat begins.

p.s. if you sin, who do you blame for your sin, yourself or an external influence (ie. the devil)?

Scriptures put the BLAME much closer than 'external' Steve and scriptures also put that working PRIMARILY in believers because it is IN THEM that the WORD is sown:

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Paul taught that in the SAME LUMP called 'me' there are TWO VESSELS...

You as Gods child are ONE of those vessels. But there IS another that is NOT YOU. See Romans 9:19-21 and 2 Tim. 2:19-20 as examples.

But by that SAME WORKING you will NOT be allowed to see this fact for yourself. That 'working' will FIGHT to the end to NOT allow that. And if so, there is nothing YOU can do about it. That is then Gods fate for YOU.

We all carry certain workings in our minds and bodies to DEATH on the cross for eventual JUDGMENTS. Some of us know it while in this present life. Most don't. They just think 'it's me.'

enjoy!

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